Tuition fees going up to £9000 a year

[growse]

Where did you get these from? My brother did Maths at Cambridge about 7 years ago and paid the same (pretty much) as I did for my degree at Sheffield Hallam.

I'm talking about the actual costs to the university, rather than what people pay. What people pay is the same. That's the point.

*edit* I believe I got them from the overseas students documentation, because they pay full whack per course, and obviously, it's not the same cost per course.

 

[Basher]

I'm talking about the actual costs to the university, rather than what people pay. What people pay is the same. That's the point.

*edit* I believe I got them from the overseas students documentation, because they pay full whack per course, and obviously, it's not the same cost per course.

Ahh, gotya.

 

[edscdk]

Personally I think there should be a variable pricing scheme on a per course basis. Make the courses in need of specialists cheap e.g maths & sciences and the MacDonalds degrees like media studies significantly more expensive. I would have no objection to media studies/art/etc costing 9k and engineering costing 2k.

lol, my brother did a degree in Psychology and some other crappy subjects, I always took the P out of him about that job he would get...

7 years on he works part time answering the phones for the lottery and sells his body for medical experiments 4x a year...

 

[AtticusFinch]

Its was his choice though

lol, my brother did a degree in Psychology and some other crappy subjects, I always took the P out of him about that job he would get...

7 years on he works part time answering the phones for the lottery and sells his body for medical experiments 4x a year...

He made the choice not to be something else other than what he's doing so not connected with his degree choice. There a more than a few people who take psych who go on to be Psychologists or enter other vocations.

 

[Judgeneo]

I'm at university now studying at a top university.

If I had to pay £9k a year it wouldn't have influenced my decision.
If I had to pay £9K a year and didn't go to a top university I wouldn't have gone.

I think this is quite representative of the population tbh, the weaker universities will struggle. I think the government said a while back that they won't save failing universities.

Killing of the weakest of the bunch will be best for the country anyhow, people with those degrees don't have any advantage over someone without, just extra debt.

 

[Gilly]

...I think the vast majority of degrees should be funded by the state.

Why?

 

[Basher]

Killing of the weakest of the bunch will be best for the country anyhow, people with those degrees don't have any advantage over someone without, just extra debt.

It depends how you define 'weakest' - academically (i.e. old polytechnics) or on rate of employment post graduation?

 

[LordSplodge]

Oh look an overreaction to the tuition fee question. How unusual

How can University be too expensive when you don't have to pay anything to attend, and if you graduate into an average grad salary of £25k, only have to pay back £negligble each month (you don't know the money is missing anyway, because it gets taken away via PAYE automatically..)

I have to say I agree with the Hatter. Maybe this will put people off going to University just to do some pointless "soft" degree and socialise.

My student loan payments barley make an impact on my pay check so I really don't see peoples issue. You are going to University so will probably end up getting a job paying above average.

Hell you can always go to the Open University...

My (and many others) degree could easily be condensed down to 1-2 years of work.

You could but the fees would need to be higher to cover the increased costs.

 

[Phoenixdancer]

I'm at university now studying at a top university.

If I had to pay £9k a year it wouldn't have influenced my decision.
If I had to pay £9K a year and didn't go to a top university I wouldn't have gone.

I think this is quite representative of the population tbh, the weaker universities will struggle. I think the government said a while back that they won't save failing universities.

Killing of the weakest of the bunch will be best for the country anyhow, people with those degrees don't have any advantage over someone without, just extra debt.

Where would you class DMU in the Uni's?

It has 28,000 Students.

 

[LordSplodge]

lol, my brother did a degree in Psychology and some other crappy subjects, I always took the P out of him about that job he would get...

So you take this mickey because he failed to apply his knowledge gleamed from his degree?

Psychology is a science and Clinical Psychologists can earn a shed load of cash. Hell you can earn a shed load of money starting a clinic...

Typically this is a person fail blamed on his choice of degree. What if he had done a Maths degree and had ended up where he is...

 

[FabienO]

Considering the trend of University costs, it's hardly surprising. 40 years ago you were paid to go to University.

Our education system has always been sub-par. We're a few steps behind America.

 

[Nitefly]

I'm really quite surprised that this has so much support on the forum.

If we want less people to go to university we should be cutting funding to lesser academic institutions and / or closing them.

This simply makes it harder for those from poorer backgrounds, who are academicly able, to fully support themselves. I was very fortunate and had my family to support my undergraduate education. Accomadation can be horrificly expensive - most people's student loan I know barely covers this. What sort of massive loans are people expected to take in the future?

Furthermore, why should it be a requirement that you must have a well paid job after university?

 

[AtticusFinch]

Such an elitist attitude

I'm really quite surprised that this has so much support on the forum.

If we want less people to go to university we should be cutting funding to lesser academic institutions and / or closing them.

This simply makes it harder for those from poorer backgrounds, who are academicly able, to fully support themselves. I was very fortunate and had my family to support my undergraduate education. Accomadation can be horrificly expensive - most people's student loan I know barely covers this.

This country seems obsessed with ranking things - if one has to meet more of the costs of a degree, then fewer may (and I stress may) choose to undertake study. if that happens there will be a natural effect on the continued viability of some courses/institutions. To determine that institution A is not as "good" as institution B and therefore it should be closed is daft. Demand and supply should apply to the education market in the same way it does to other commodities.

 

[RabbiJacob]

Just an interesting point to note, given the Mrs is French she is baffled by the UK education system and obviously compares it to France. We did some searching and found these figures, not making any conclusions, it's just interesting to note!

how many Universities are there in the UK? 165...
In France, there are 81
In Germany, there are 71
(Figures from 08/09)

Compared to population
UK: 61,414,062
FR: 62,277,432
GR: 82,110,097

Again, just throwing some statistics into the mix!

 

[Nitefly]

This country seems obsessed with ranking things - if one has to meet more of the costs of a degree, then fewer may (and I stress may) choose to undertake study. if that happens there will be a natural effect on the continued viability of some courses/institutions. To determine that institution A is not as "good" as institution B and therefore it should be closed is daft. Demand and supply should apply to the education market in the same way it does to other commodities.

I agree with your sentiment, but I base my idea around the principle that I think that degree's in 'glass blowing' are pointless.

Yes, my friend has a degree in glass blowing, and it was funded by the taxpayer, partly if not almost wholly.

 

[growse]

I'm really quite surprised that this has so much support on the forum.

If we want less people to go to university we should be cutting funding to lesser academic institutions and / or closing them.

This simply makes it harder for those from poorer backgrounds, who are academicly able, to fully support themselves. I was very fortunate and had my family to support my undergraduate education. Accomadation can be horrificly expensive - most people's student loan I know barely covers this. What sort of massive loans are people expected to take in the future?

Furthermore, why should it be a requirement that you must have a well paid job after university?

In my experience, if you genuinely can't afford the living costs, the university will help you out. I appreciate my experience is limited, but I've heard other people from other universities say a similar thing. Anacdote!=data yada though.

And I disagree about cutting the funding, I think the funding should be redirected so that we keep the top universities open, but those bright/able enough to go there should be fully subsidised. But unfortunately, that's never going to happen.

It isn't a requirement to get a well paying job after university. If we had 80% of university graduates going into academic research, I'd then be happy that universities are doing their job properly. People forget that the primary purpose of a university is research, and the purpose of offering undergraduate degrees is to prepare students enough to allow them to go and do research. This whole "I want to be an investment banker/lawyer/accountant therefore I need a degree" thing we're seeing today is not how the system was designed, and shouldn't be how it's used. You don't need a degree to be a lawyer, you need to go to law school.

 

[AtticusFinch]

What?

This whole "I want to be an investment banker/lawyer/accountant therefore I need a degree" thing we're seeing today is not how the system was designed, and shouldn't be how it's used. You don't need a degree to be a lawyer, you need to go to law school.

Where I come from a law degree is a prerequiste for admission to the profession. How would a "law school" be different from gaining a "law degree" or admittedly as this is not actually a requirement in the UK - an "x qualification" from said law school?

I agree that not all vocations require a degree, but the basis of professions such as law and medicine have traditionally been based on academic pursuit and learning as much as practical learning of how to do the job.

This is about people realising when they need a degree and the utility in them undertaking study. They may choose to do so because it makees them a "better person" or "makes them happy". These reasons are subjective and will vary from person to person, increasing the cost of study should prompt people to consider whether the investment is something they're willing to make or not.

 

[Thesaff]

You can all say what you want about the unfairness, but it is happening.

Who is to blame?

Brown, Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Osborne.
No none of the above, the employer. He is the one who asks for a degree student, he is the one who sets out the requirement for the job. If employers en masse started to say you don't need a degree to work for us, we will train you. Guess what enrolment at universities would drop and drop fast. The majority of students go to University not for the love of the subject but to get a better chances in life, well guess what your being charged for it now. It wont change because so many students do not have the mettle to protest, or to join in protest movements, because your all too scared it will affect your future employment chances.

 

[growse]

Where I come from a law degree is a prerequiste for admission to the profession. How would a "law school" be different from gaining a "law degree" or admittedly as this is not actually a requirement in the UK - an "x qualification" from said law school?

I agree that not all vocations require a degree, but the basis of professions such as law and medicine have traditionally been based on academic pursuit and learning as much as practical learning of how to do the job.

This is about people realising when they need a degree and the utility in them undertaking study. They may choose to do so because it makees them a "better person" or "makes them happy". These reasons are subjective and will vary from person to person, increasing the cost of study should prompt people to consider whether the investment is something they're willing to make or not.

There's a difference in doing a law degree to learn the academic theory, which would be useful if you wanted to be a criminologist.

Even if you leave university with a law degree, my understanding (in the UK) is that you still have to go through training to actually become a solicitor/barrister - presumably because actually being a solicitor/barrister is a very different skillset to what they teach in a law degree. The guys I've spoken to (who both did law degrees and then went on to become solicitors) is that there was nothing in their degrees which did anything about teaching them how to practice law, and that it basically reduced their training period by a year. People still trained without having a law degree, they just did an extra year on the front.

I agree with your last point. People should be allowed to have whatever reason they want to do a degree. However, the universities reason for wanting people to do a degree is to get more research students. The universities (usually) have no vested interest in getting people jobs in the private sector.

 

[Nitefly]

There's a difference in doing a law degree to learn the academic theory, which would be useful if you wanted to be a criminologist.

Even if you leave university with a law degree, my understanding (in the UK) is that you still have to go through training to actually become a solicitor/barrister - presumably because actually being a solicitor/barrister is a very different skillset to what they teach in a law degree. The guys I've spoken to (who both did law degrees and then went on to become solicitors) is that there was nothing in their degrees which did anything about teaching them how to practice law, and that it basically reduced their training period by a year. People still trained without having a law degree, they just did an extra year on the front.

I agree with your last point. People should be allowed to have whatever reason they want to do a degree. However, the universities reason for wanting people to do a degree is to get more research students. The universities (usually) have no vested interest in getting people jobs in the private sector.

You are quite right in the sense that an undergraduate law degree does take three years. Otherwise to practice in law you need an undergraduate degree plus a one (or two) year conversion course. Either route, you then go on to do a legal practice course.

However, you do learn a valuable skill set from any undergraduate degree, which includes improving your ability to analyse material and present your opinions in a well structured format.