Religion - I can understand someone believing in god/jesus, but why do they believe in the bible?

Deadbeat said:
Christ, could you be more cretinous? You're declaring your atheism in a much more forceful and self-righteous way than I've heard any Christian talk of his or her faith in years, where exactly is the basis for your accusations? I've never known von to push his beliefs on anyone on these forums, nor even claim a notion neither of his being the 'true faith' nor of anyone else's faith (or lack thereof) being wrong. He's always argued convincingly and with decorum within the bounds of heated debate. You, on the other hand, have been bilious and asinine since you first waded through your swamp of ignorance into this thread, and every time you post you make yourself look more of a fool. What do decent-minded atheists & agnostics have to do to be disassociated from embarassments like you?
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Totally agree.
He gives us atheists a bad name with his ignorance.
 
dmpoole said:
Totally agree.
He gives us atheists a bad name with his ignorance.
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Once again it's the loud, brash, outspoken few who give the rest a bad name. I've always disliked atheists because they seem as sanctimonious and self-righteous as fervent religious extremists. To know what all atheists aren't like that is somewhat heartening.
 
vonhelmet said:
I am not claiming my beliefs are provable. The issue under dispute was that Jesus, at some point, said he was not the son of God. That's not in the Bible, so I asked where it came from. He had no evidence of such a thing which makes it a statement of belief at best, and trolling lies at worst, so no more valid or invalid than any of my beliefs.



I'm not aware that I routinely insult people, so perhaps you can show me this? I may have asked, slightly crudely, in this thread if thingy might be better off elsewhere if GD was too serious for him, but other than that it's all been above board and generally is. Do I routinely call people idiots in these threads? Poin it out and I'll stop, but I'm not aware I do.

And no, I don't take your complaint about my sig seriously S I doubt you'd bat an eyelid were it not for our other disagreements.

And I'm not a teacher!
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O.K. apologies for thinking you were a teacher, there is some justice in the world after all :p I just recall an argument on one of the forums where you mentioned you were involved with maybe a Sunday school or something?
 
rapid64k said:
This is ONLY for vonhelmet no one else: Matthew 7:6
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This explains everything, once you read it you will be born again

“Do not give what is holy to dogs; and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under foot and turn and maul you.

7“Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

12“In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets. 13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
 
To the OP - I would say muslims follow the Bible more then christians tbh...


Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

This is the foundation of Islam, the belief in One God - yet many christians say God is 3 in 1, or a trinity.


Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God

Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God

2 Chronicles 20:18 And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.

and even when speaking about Jesus Christ may peace be upon him...

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.

This is the manner in which muslims worship, they prostrate themselves and bow down before God.


Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights,

The above verse speaks of Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Another form of prayer is fasting, something muslims do during the month of Ramadan.


Luke 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have

Many people give to charity but in Islam is it compulsory for anyone who is earning to donate a small % every year to charity.


Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you

Muslims greet eachother by saying 'Asalaam-u-alaikum' which means 'peace be unto you'.


James 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

Muslims before making any intention should say 'insha-Allah' which means 'God willing'.


1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head

Muslim women are instructed to observe hijaab which requires the covering of the hair/head.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Muslims regard Gods law/commandments as the supreme law.


James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Islam means submission, and a muslim is 'one who submits' to God.


and you can go on.
 
e36Adz said:
To the OP - I would say muslims follow the Bible more then christians tbh...


Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

This is the foundation of Islam, the belief in One God - yet many christians say God is 3 in 1, or a trinity.


Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God

Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God

2 Chronicles 20:18 And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.

and even when speaking about Jesus Christ may peace be upon him...

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.

This is the manner in which muslims worship, they prostrate themselves and bow down before God.


Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights,

The above verse speaks of Jesus Christ peace be upon him. Another form of prayer is fasting, something muslims do during the month of Ramadan.


Luke 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have

Many people give to charity but in Islam is it compulsory for anyone who is earning to donate a small % every year to charity.


Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you

Muslims greet eachother by saying 'Asalaam-u-alaikum' which means 'peace be unto you'.


James 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

Muslims before making any intention should say 'insha-Allah' which means 'God willing'.


1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head

Muslim women are instructed to observe hijaab which requires the covering of the hair/head.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Muslims regard Gods law/commandments as the supreme law.


James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Islam means submission, and a muslim is 'one who submits' to God.


and you can go on.
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They may follow aspects of it but miss the entire point.
 
Islam doesn't just mean submission either. It means peace and purity in submission before God. Amazing how many people decide to leave out the peace part.....
 
Yay, I can do Bible quotes too!

Favourite book in Genesis, 19:

8. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

[This to a gang of Sodom citizens who had gathered outside of Lot's house to rape the two angels that he sheltered there]

34. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

[another classic excerpt from early scripture, where both of Lot's daughters on successive nights get their father drunk and have sex with him]

From Numbers, 31:

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

[This would be after Moses slaughtered the Midianites and his armies took all the women & children captive, so Moses ordered them to kill all of the male children and any woman who wasn't a virgin, but to keep the virgins (down to the youngest female children) to do with as they pleased]

Ezekiel 9:

6. Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

[a nice warning to the unbelievers - this is God's direct command to slaughter anyone that doesn't fanatically worship Him, both women and men from the oldest down to the very youngest]

Please keep in mind that I'm not anti-Christian, or anti- any other religion. I'm anti-church, anti-bible and anti-organised religion. People are free to believe whatever they damn well please, and I've got enough untenable beliefs of my own to inspire tolerance for just about anything, but quoting the Bible to back up your faith is not a smart move - there's just too much bull**** in there for anybody to be swayed by it, and even if they were you'd be in the unenviable position of either picking and choosing which parts of your faith you wish to adhere to or you're a level-headed veneer pasted over a seething sack of vitriolic fanaticism.

Edit: Just so I'm not persecuting any one religious group, these are all form the old testament - am I right in thinking that this and the holy book of Islam have the same source?
 
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I'm afraid they all conveniently choose to ignore the bad parts of holy books where they don't like what is written.
But this is where is becomes futile for them to quote only the good parts in trying to justify the bible/koran as proof of anything they believe in because it then becomes hypocritical to shout down anyone who points out the , raping,stoning and all the other nasty stuff that's frequently in the scriptures.

Where would both those religions be without the aforementioned books because that's seemingly is the only visible thing they can base their entire belief on.
 
Castiel said:
Islam doesn't just mean submission either. It means peace and purity in submission before God. Amazing how many people decide to leave out the peace part.....
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Probably because these days Islam isnt associated with peace anymore but rather violence and terrorism.
 
Not clever really you may take the odd bible quote from hither and tither and claim you found some illuminating fact!!
But you need to read the entire section to glean the knowlege there in.
You need to be reader of the book to be able to use such quotes. thus you can bring understanding to the text.
 
rapid64k said:
Not clever really you may take the odd bible quote from hither and tither and claim you found some illuminating fact!!
But you need to read the entire section to glean the knowlege there in.
You need to be reader of the book to be able to use such quotes. thus you can bring understanding to the text.
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The whole passage from Numbers 31:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers 31&version=KJV

What part of this justifies keeping virgin girls to use as the soldiers saw fit? I see how the deaths of the women are 'justified' by blaming them for tempting the Isrealites and spreading plague, but how does that excuse slaughtering the male children?

Ezekiel 9:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel 9&version=KJV

Again, in what context would the entire population of a city deserve to be ambiguously tried for their faith in God, and murdered if they didn't match up to what God expected of them?

Finally, Genesis 19:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis 19&version=kjv

Please feel free to draw my attention to any part of this passage that justifies Lot offering his virgin daughters to a mob to distract them from raping his guests. Feel free to draw from any other portion of the bible, or any other text, or explain in any means you can how this could possibly be justified.
 
rapid64k said:
Not clever really you may take the odd bible quote from hither and tither and claim you found some illuminating fact!!
But you need to read the entire section to glean the knowlege there in.
You need to be reader of the book to be able to use such quotes. thus you can bring understanding to the text.
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But how does reading the entire section alter the kill them/stone them quotes.
It tells you quite clearly to kill homosexuals, to stone to death adulterers/ kill babies/ kill non believers etc. etc.

No matter how you view it you can't deny that its' written so as already pointed out you choose only the parts you agree with.
 
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