Rioting in London?

bloodiedathame said:
But not true, friends I have from 'less well off' backgrounds treated their time at Uni as a booze and drug fest.
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describe ''less well off'' living at home paying no rent ? parents paying their uni house rent ? doesnt sound very less well off to me.

with just student loans it is near impossible to go out on the lash for 3 years. you will find that the people who do such things are lucky enough for there parents to be contributing

go put your and your parents details in the student loan calculator on the the direct gov site and you will be massively surprised. what? your parents dont give you money ? well the loans people dont take that into consideration...

Hatter The Mad said:
NO IT ISN'T

Stop spreading FUD, you pig-ignorant baboon.

Regardless of whether you are rich or poor you can still go to University and not have to pay a penny until after you graduate
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keep telling yourself that...
 
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Biohazard said:
Yes it was.

I didn't notice another Labour party on the ballot.
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There's the Socialist Labour Party as well. ;)

bloodiedathame said:
Funding has been cut, but fees will rise to balance the discrepancy... that's business.

Also, it shouldn't put off poorer students because as someone pointed out in the Speakers Corner thread, the loan repayment in a £15k job will be about £100 a month... I know people that spend this on their sodding phone bill, or on a boozy weekend.

Wake up.
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They are rising the threshold to £21k a year.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Also, it shouldn't put off poorer students because as someone pointed out in the Speakers Corner thread, the loan repayment in a £15k job will be about £100 a month... I know people that spend this on their sodding phone bill, or on a boozy weekend.
.
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Actually on the propsed scheme the loan repayment in a £15k job will be nothing. You don't start paying it off till over £20k.
 
Superewza said:
Labour by name, right wing authoritarians by policy. People voted for them because they were still the best we had. What does that tell you about our democracy?
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You had John Prescott, Gordon Brown, that woman who ran against Blair. The Labour party voted for Blair overwhelmingly. He enjoyed more support across all Labour bases than any other leader before him. Blair's Labour was Labour.
 
Must try harder

MotherMayI said:
Yeah, because the extortionate fees are surely going to appeal to the lower earning families as much as higher earners :rolleyes:

Ahleckz, what the hell are you on about? The NUS organised the protest. That is fact. They also said they are "disgusted" at the violence that went on. That is also fact.

And people need to keep in mind that the protests arent just over university fees, but over university cuts as well. Faculties are being cut all over the country, teaching standards are falling, and fees are rising. That is worthy of a protest in itself.

Seems to be a lot of people who just seem to see anyone demonstrating and think "LOL MORONS AGAINST AUTHORITY", regardless of the situation. Sticking up for what you believe in and demonstrating does not make you a hippy, or anything else. If you don't, it makes you an idiot.
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The fees are clearly stated and known before anyone starts. You provide no reason at all why those fees would stop a low-income person from taking the course. Indeed why should they. One pays nothing of those costs whilst actually studying, and then only repays after attaining a reasonable income of £21K p/a and even then makes very small payments back to cover the costs of study.

None of that prevents anyone from enrolling and completing a course of study. I came from a low-income family in New Zealand, I paid significantly more than is being proposed in England and Wales. I made a concious and informed decision as to the relative value of a degree to me in the future and I'm pleased I did.

This trotting out that the poor will be prevented is just disingenous. People need to grow up and accept that elective further education is a commodity like anything else and attracts a direct cost.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
You had John Prescott, Gordon Brown, that woman who ran against Blair. The Labour party voted for Blair overwhelmingly. He enjoyed more support across all Labour bases than any other leader before him. Blair's Labour was Labour.
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Superewza has some very odd ideas in general. Not entirely grounded in what the rest of us call "reality". :)
 
When I went to university we were up in arms too, why? because the Tory government of the time removed grants for all but the poorest students. Oh the middle class loved it, said it was fair and it wouldn't stop people going but I know for a fact that it put plenty of my classmates at school off going, people who I will admit were cleverer than me but I still went by virtue of having comparatively well-off parents.

These days I'm not sure that going to university is a such logical choice. I live in a fairly well-off area - I look around me and see all the middle-class professionals who undoubtedly went to university in pokey flats or starter homes. I then walk around the posh housing estates and practically every one has a white van outside - plumbers, builders, electricians, kitchen fitters, hell even painters and decorators.
 
Ahleckz said:
You're clueless. The NUS couldn't organize the proverbial booze up in a brewery. They are just a merry band of squabbling leftie kids that are high on some sense of power. Why are the Scottish ones there, if not for a riot?
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A show of union and support I'd say.

They are all a merry band of squabbling leftie kids high on power?

I haven't seen that.
 
Superewza said:
Labour by name, right wing authoritarians by policy. People voted for them because they were still the best we had. What does that tell you about our democracy?
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The best for what? Certainly not education. Students leaving uni with more debts than under the Conservatives, radically lessened job prospects and an economy and graduate system in tatters.
 
Vtec9k said:
I may be wrong but the plan is to pay the majority of the fees back AFTER you graduate. How does that stop poor people going to uni?
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Hatter The Mad said:
Why do you think they are "extortionate"?

Why will someone from a poor background be any more put off from someone from a rich background? If they both walk out with the same degree, they'll roughly have the same job prospects, they'll be earning roughly the same amount, they'll be paying back the same amount.

Stop being ignorant, stop spreading FUD.
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This and this.

As I've said but was carefully ignored, for the average student, it only means they are paying back their loan longer. IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE TO SUDDENLY FORK OUT £9000.
 
Lysander said:
The best for who? Certainly not education. Students leaving uni with more debts than under the Conservatives, radically lessened job prospects and an economy and graduate system in tatters.
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Blame the Labour government for the lessened job prospects and buggered economy.
 
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