Educate Me - Why have rotary engines never really taken off?

[Relentless81]

Honda B series needing a rebuild at 60k? I did an LOL

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I would imagine with some R&D rotarty engines could be a serious competitor, it is all very well comparing a tried and tested design to something which has only had a few commercial applications.

Look at any car from the 1960s/1970s, how many cars with over 200bhp would return much more than 20mpg?

Reliability is also a factor, these 30/40 year old cars may be lucky to see 100k miles with such a state of tune.

In regards to the actual displacement of the engine, if they detuned it to half power and increased mpg i am sure many people would be happy with 115bhp and mid 30s mpg (as well as being super smooth).

I agree with the comments against them in the here and now, but i do think if you can make a 3 litre petrol engine average 30mpg anything is possible.

Considering the costs when bought second hand surely it is just a PAYG car, opposed to the crappy eco boxes with free tax where you have to spend twice the amount and end up with a frankly shonky, boring car.

Ive heard of concurrent engineering but conjecture engineering only seems to appear on the internet.

 

[Dogbreath]

Your thinking of radial engines, rotary engines were phased out in aircraft in the early 1920's

*EDIT*

Its just occurred to me, are ****el engines actually rotary engines? I know they call them that but they seem to share their design with radials not rotarys

Piston based radials and rotaries are essentially very similar designs, the main difference is that on a rotary the crankshaft is the stationary part and in the radial the cylinders are stationary. Neither are remotely related to the Wan kel engine.

Ive heard of concurrent engineering but conjecture engineering only seems to appear on the internet.

 

[MikeHiow]

I might be late to this thread party but ****ing hell, another retarded comment and right at the beginning.

More hearsay here with the words 'its has been said' and 'that some'. Who was this by, the tooth fairy and Mrs Acrington-Jones at number 42, clearly the most qualified to make such blase comments.

Oh, hi.

My source; 5:15, he suggests it should be rebuilt after 60,000 "clicks", which would indicate to me he is in fact talking kilometres rather than miles like I thought.

Also note I posted that it has been said it should be rebuilt, not that it needs a rebuild.

Thanks.

 

[ubersonic]

Oh, hi.

My source; 5:15, he suggests it should be rebuilt after 60,000 "clicks"

Thats 37k miles, your source is garbage and your nuts for taking it seriously, a Honda that needs a rebuild every 37k miles? really?

 

[MikeHiow]

Thats 37k miles, your source is garbage

Yeah, what does he know? He's only the CEO of probably the biggest Honda tuning company (Spoon).

 

[[TW]Fox]

Are you budgeting for an engine rebuild with your new ek9 Mike?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yeah, what does he know? He's only the CEO of probably the biggest Honda tuning company (Spoon).

Spoon who tweak OEM Honda bits are recommending you rebuild the engine before the manufacturers warranty has ran out? They are not the biggest either.

No your talking about a car used in race events and championships..... oh wait scrap that. Its less harsh on the car, remember?

 

[-Ad-]

Yeah, what does he know? He's only the CEO of probably the biggest Honda tuning company (Spoon).

So a company who sell a large variety of upgrades and parts at silly prices telling customers they 'should get' their engines rebuilt very often.

Shocker!

Was expecting a source like this though rather than something specific from a designer/Engi Honda.

No your talking about a car used in race events and championships..... oh wait scrap that. Its less harsh on the car, remember?

!"!!111111

 

[MikeHiow]

oh wait scrap that. Its less harsh on the car, remember?

That isn't what I said, now is it

So a company who sell a large variety of upgrades and parts at silly prices telling customers they 'should get' their engines rebuilt very often.

Shocker!

Was expecting a source like this though rather than something specific from a designer/Engi Honda.

You can easily play any source any way you like, but it doesn't seem so ridiculous to me on what is a high compression and highly tuned engine that it should be rebuilt (not needs to be rebuilt) after such a distance.

As I said in a previous post, this has been mentioned when discussing B-series engine's not making standard power at higher mileages.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Are you budgeting for an engine rebuild with your new ek9 Mike?

 

[-Ad-]

You can easily play any source any way you like, but it doesn't seem so ridiculous to me on what is a high compression and highly tuned engine that it should be rebuilt (not needs to be rebuilt) after such a distance.

As I said in a previous post, this has been mentioned when discussing B-series engine's not making standard power at higher mileages.

The only information in that post on page 1 about Honda B-series was:

.

It's not like they break down every 5 minutes. It has been said that some Honda B-Series engines should be rebuilt every 60K as well, but no one calls these unreliable.

Nothing in there about engines not making standard power at higher mileages, just the spouting how apparently they need rebuild (citing spoon source now) and now you're going about how you think that 'doesn't sound soo ridiculous'?

Is this from your extensive Honda background, figures from a huge variety of owners on when their engines have been rebuilt, Engineering Degree with engine building experience?

You just need to speak to the owners of some B-series cars to see how many miles they are on with their original engines. Integras for example are well documented on the forum for being 100k+ and purring along fine. There are cars that have required rebuilds as something has gone internally, but this thought in your head about a 60k+ km rebuild sounding about right is total rubbish and another one of your complete dreams coupled with no evidence or theory behind it.

 

[Saytan]

Are you budgeting for an engine rebuild with your new ek9 Mike?

he wont have it long enough before he's trying to decide whether to swap it for a 760li or a daewoo matiz.

 

[MikeHiow]

Nothing in there about engines not making standard power at higher mileages, just the spouting how apparently they need rebuild (citing spoon source now) and now you're going about how you think that 'doesn't sound soo ridiculous'?

Please observe the difference between should and needs.

Except where I said;

It is talked about on one of those popular Honda videos, I think it may have been the Spoon guy? (Not good with names). It's also been mentioned on Honda forums a few times for reasons why a standard DC2 doesn't make book power at higher mileage.

I have spoken to some Honda owners, the last one I spoke to claimed that it is generally expected for a B16B to make 170bhp at 80k miles, and that is someone who has studied motorsport engineering or some such.

I do not wish to argue this with you, unless you can categorically show that the CEO of Spoon is lying, after all, I just quoted a credible source.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Out of interest what BHP did Tims EK9 make on the last RR?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I have spoken to some Honda owners, the last one I spoke to claimed that it is generally expected for a B16B to make 170bhp at 80k miles, and that is someone who has studied motorsport engineering or some such.

I do not wish to argue this with you, unless you can categorically show that the CEO of Spoon is lying, after all, I just quoted a credible source.

Marketing BS work! That and the Fast and Furious over egging the Spoon name.

My B16a1 made 175bhp, B18C 202. All will more than 60k miles. But then thats only a dyno guesstimate.

I have no idea what relevance motorsport engineering has either, did he even pass, it wont do anything on tribilogy of a high output road engine. You can get power back just by setting the dissy where it should be from the factory in terms of the base engine timing BTDC. But Ive also mentioned that before and I'm a previous B series owner....

 

[ubersonic]

I do not wish to argue this with you, unless you can categorically show that the CEO of Spoon is lying, after all, I just quoted a credible source.

Well as Honda offered more than 37k mile warranty on that engine they obviously either wanted to go bankrupt or had a different opinion of their engine to the spoon CEO.

BTW why does being the CEO of a tuning company make him an engine guru? I wouldn't blindly trust advice on graphics card power consumption from the CEO of Microsoft.

Mileage is one of the last things you should care about on a Honda, being rust free and having F/S/H are far more important. Ive seen well looked after 180k+ Preludes still hitting their factory bhp and ive seen mistreated 90k ones down on power.

 

[-Ad-]

Please observe the difference between should and needs.

I have but that seems to be your way of attempting to get out of it. Implying in your written posts and 'X' source has said they should have a rebuild then you turn around when we question this and say 'I never meant fact' but only 'maybe/possibly/should/hmmmm/fnnng'

Except where I said;

I have spoken to some Honda owners, the last one I spoke to claimed that it is generally expected for a B16B to make 170bhp at 80k miles, and that is someone who has studied motorsport engineering or some such.

I do not wish to argue this with you, unless you can categorically show that the CEO of Spoon is lying, after all, I just quoted a credible source.

So a Honda owner... A SINGLE Honda owner claims his car is down on power at a certain mileage and now suddenly this is what that type of engine does across the spectrum? Give me a break!

Can't be bothered anymore, Johnny hs summed it up well and I'm not going to
repeat what he has said...... Well actually I have heard from an ex-Honda owner, who now has a battery powered car who actually works in the industry, and I have proof

 

[MikeHiow]

I have but that seems to be your way of attempting to get out of it. Implying in your written posts and 'X' source has said they should have a rebuild then you turn around when we question this and say 'I never meant fact' but only 'maybe/possibly/should/hmmmm/fnnng'

Get out of what? My first post makes perfectly clear that I was referring to another source, and how I interpreted it (should be, rather than needs to be). I've since provided you with the source, as you claimed it was some kind of fantasy. What more do you want?

Jesus, and people think I don't back down?

 

[Simon]

When does a F20 need rebuilding if a B16 needs a rebuild after 60k km ?


Oh and LOL@ mate with motorsport engineering degree. Motorsport engineering is like the GNVQ version of a degree.