Do you recognise these student rioters?

Von Smallhausen said:
I think the cops are absolved of any blame for this one.

They are damned for doing nothing and would have been damned for wading in with sticks.
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Valentino said:
Actually, they go 'wading in with sticks' they potentially face a personal assault charge and being sacked. They do nothing the force gets slammed, not the individuals.

Not to mention they were hideously out numbered.
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steve-h said:
There's a time and a place for both. If only they'd get it right.
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They cops were so outnumbered here that they were correct in not arresting anyone at the time. What use is arresting someone when that, in itself, removes 2 cops from the situation as they deal with the arrestee thereby leaving their colleagues even more understaffed....

Arresting these people as it happens is the easy option, not always the smart option...
 
dowie said:
Obviously Martin Luther King and Gandhi never achieved anything with peaceful demonstrations.
San Suu Kyi the recently released pro democracy campaigner in Burma obviously didn't get the attention of the world's media or win a Nobel peace prize.

Yeah you're right, peaceful demonstrations have never achieved anything..... :rolleyes:
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Never say never on a forum, you will get taken literaly :)

Yep , they were/are inspirational people....but are a minority of examples of ways of changing movements in human history.

Ghandi preached non-violent and non-cooperative techniques of mass protest (but still supported the Zulu War) but for all the masses of people who followed this amazing man, there were still plenty of people in the movement who used violence, and in reality lots of people died in the fight for India's independance.

And as above, the vast majority of students were protesting peacefuly and it was only a minority who caused any trouble.

And as for San Suu Kyi, not everyone wants to wait 20+ years for anything to happen ;) - which tbh, not much has happened yet

Anyway, I'm not advocating unrest/direct action as the only solution, peaceful dialogue is preferable of course, but i'm not dismissing it either as peaceful protest doesn't always work.
 
This is one of the few times that I agree that the Police should not have arrrested anyone, as they were already put into a terrible situation, greatly out numbered and without sufficiant equipment. Arresting select people might have put themselves in even greater danger.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
Freakbro, sorry but I clicked edit instead of quote on your reply and can't retrieve it for some reason.

Post again if you wish. Apologies again.
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No worries :)

I was just saying the poll tax was unfair...and that for paying a local "tax" to your council, this has nearly always been done from the householder....be it council tax, rates, window tax whatever, and the poll tax was disproportionately unfair to the poorer members of society

It was a time of pride that we as a nation stood up to the government, in many different ways..... a lot peaceful and some not so peaceful, and got them to listen and change a very unpopular piece of legislation.
 
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My uni lot went, i didnt ,wouldnt put it past them tbh. I wish i had gone as a photojournalist though.
 
Freakbro said:
I was just saying the poll tax was unfair...and that for paying a local "tax" to your council, this has nearly always been done from the householder....be it council tax, rates, window tax whatever, and the poll tax was disproportionately unfair to the poorer members of society
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Poll tax was NOT unfair, it was one of the fairest means of taking local tax

It was simply not "progressive", which means it actually charged people a fair rate as opposed to having the rich pay the wast majority of the cost.
 
If those are indeed students and not just random people looking for an excuse to smash stuff up then I hope they get thrown out of their respective universities and have this on their record permanently.
 
neoboy said:
If those are indeed students and not just random people looking for an excuse to smash stuff up then I hope they get thrown out of their respective universities and have this on their record permanently.
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Meanwhile nothing changes and future students get shafted.

We have zero control over things pan out; so we might as well just lie down and give up?

But at least we can still vote! haha....
 
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I wasn't talking about the demonstration but the people who decided to start smashing and burning shizzle up. What they done is basically undermined the efforts of the thousands of other peaceful students who turned up on the day, so I'm guessing you either misunderstood my quote or you're implying that violent protest was the only way here.
 
neoboy said:
I wasn't talking about the demonstration but the people who decided to start smashing and burning shizzle up. What they done is basically undermined the efforts of the thousands of other peaceful students who turned up on the day, so I'm guessing you either misunderstood my quote or you're implying that violent protest was the only way here.
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I'm implying there is no way.
 
Reminds me of the specials 80's song....."ghost town"...government leaving this youth on the shelf. For all those who oppose the students "you're working for the rat race, you know you're wasting your time...you're working for the rat race, you're no friend of mine"
Well done students.
 
ColdAsIce said:
This is one of the few times that I agree that the Police should not have arrrested anyone, as they were already put into a terrible situation, greatly out numbered and without sufficiant equipment. Arresting select people might have put themselves in even greater danger.
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Quite right - the officers on the ground did the best job they could given the circumstances. Would have been no point trying to arrest individuals when they were vastly outnumbered and not equipped for the situation.

The people in command did screw up though - with the fall out over the G20 protests they wanted to take a lighter touch with this student protest, which is great, and initially the right thing to do. They also had no intelligence of specific threats so I guess that is a fairly reasonable reason why they didn't have TSG officers already stationed outside the Tory party HQ etc...
However they only had a couple of hundred police to cover the protest which had at least a couple of hundred anarchist/rent-a-mob types in attendance. To not have a large group of police in reserve was a major oversight - it took far too long for TSG to arrive and help their colleagues.
 
spankingtexan said:
Reminds me of the specials 80's song....."ghost town"...government leaving this youth on the shelf. For all those who oppose the students "you're working for the rat race, you know you're wasting your time...you're working for the rat race, you're no friend of mine"
Well done students.
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That reminds me of that tax payers song that has just been released:

"we're working to pay for your education, don't bite the hand that feeds you, you know you're lazy little buggers, no need to worry as nothing is for free, ........... and nothing is for free"
 
Superewza said:
So... it wasn't fair?
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Err it was, it is progressive taxes that are unfair.

Just because you earn more you should not pay more tax (either as a % for certain things, or a total ££ amount for other things).

Local taxes should mainly be based on ££ per person, as the cost of a local service (such as rubbish collection) does not scale with income.
Some parts should be based as a % though.

A truly fair system will have a ££ per person tax plus a flat % (no banding, everyone pays the same) of income tax.
 
rypt said:
Err it was, it is progressive taxes that are unfair.

Just because you earn more you should not pay more tax (either as a % for certain things, or a total ££ amount for other things).

Local taxes should mainly be based on ££ per person, as the cost of a local service (such as rubbish collection) does not scale with income.
Some parts should be based as a % though.

A truly fair system will have a ££ per person tax plus a flat % (no banding, everyone pays the same) of income tax.
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So you think it's fair to make somebody who can't afford to pay the tax and live should have to pay the same amount as somebody who can afford to pay the tax and own a speedboat, giant house and go on holidays all round the world several times a year?

Sorry mate, but you just can't win this one.
 
Superewza said:
So you think it's fair to make somebody who can't afford to pay the tax and live should have to pay the same amount as somebody who can afford to pay the tax and own a speedboat, giant house and go on holidays all round the world several times a year?

Sorry mate, but you just can't win this one.
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So you think when you buy a meal at a restaurant you should have to pay more because you're better off?





So you think it's fair to make somebody who can't afford to pay the tax and live
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What are they going to get shot if they don't pay up?
 
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