Question on 120 hz monitors.

dmxdex2020

dmxdex2020

dmxdex2020

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When you turn Vsync on in games on a 60hz monitor you get bad mouse lag or mouse delay. Would turning Vsync on a 120hz monitor still give you mouse lag?
 
dmxdex2020 said:
When you turn Vsync on in games on a 60hz monitor you get bad mouse lag or mouse delay. Would turning Vsync on a 120hz monitor still give you mouse lag?
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It`s much much better to the point that to me,it feels non exsistant im sure some people would say they can still feel it ,but all would agree it`s MUCH less noticeable.Put triplebuffering on with v-sync and you have the perfect gaming scenario for me.....zero input lag,no tearing and if your hardware is up to it and can maintain 120 fps ,silky smooth movement ;).Although pro multiplayer gamers would stil probably want to use no vsync but in single players it`s ideal.
 
I find most games playable, competitive multiplayer and all, enabling triple buffering for DirectX applications when using Vsync. You can do this using a tool such as the D3DOverrider of RivaTuner. I haven't experienced any sort of problematic mouse lag at all on 60Hz monitors using this method - even on relatively slow panels. I may notice it but it hasn't impeded my fragging ability at least. ;)
 
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Its much reduced from 60Hz, I find it acceptable for single player (lack of tearing is nice when your maxing out quality settings) - which 60Hz never was - but online multiplayer I still disable VSync at 120Hz as I can still feel the input lag.
 
At 120Hz the mouse lag will be roughly half that of a 60Hz screen (fairly obvious really... A frame is always stored in the frame-buffer, and is not replaced until the screen refreshes. With 120Hz panels this happens twice as frequently as with a 60Hz panel). At the maximum framerate, on a 60Hz screen the delay between giving an instruction and it appearing on screen with be between 16.7ms and 33.3ms (i.e. between 1/60 and 1/30 second), depending on where you are in the refresh cycle when you make the instruction. On a 120Hz panel the delay is somewhere between 8.3ms and 16.7ms.

PCM2: I'm very surprised to hear you say that, regarding mouse lag... With triple-buffer vsync you get the advantage of not having to put up with discrete jumps in framerate at less than 60fps (or 120fps for a 120Hz screen), but the price for this is storing an extra frame in the buffer (hence the name; 'triple' buffer rather than 'double buffer' for regular vsync). Enabling triple buffer vsync on a 60Hz screen the delay will be between 33.3ms and 50ms, and on a 120Hz screen will be between 16.7ms and 25ms. There is no way to get around this delay when enabling triple buffer vsync - after all the basic functionality requires that three frames are in play at all times, so if you're not experiencing mouse lag then I'm not sure what's going on.

I'm pretty sensitive to input lag, and anything over around 20ms feels sluggish to me. The panels I've been using recently all have a native input lag of around 15ms, so adding any vsync at all becomes uncomfortable. Perhaps on a low input-lag 120Hz screen it would be fine though...



To summarise:

60Hz double buffer ('regular') vsync: 16.7 to 33.3ms lag
60Hz triple buffer vysnc: 33.3 to 50ms lag

120Hz double buffer vsync: 8.3 to 16.7ms lag
120Hz triple buffer vsync: 16.7 to 25ms lag

The above are all on top of the native input lag of the screen (which tends to be very low anyway on 120Hz screens).
 
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I didn't word my response very carefully at all. Infact the last part of it seems to contradict what I had said. I was supposed to say that I don't have a problem with it, not that I don't 'experience' it. Will change to avoid confusion and add factual correctness. I also think that people should follow the example of Duff man here and make sure they distinguish between 'input lag' in the display sense of the word and 'controller lag' ('controller input lag'). May seem pedantic but this is a monitor forum. I do think the ability to disable Vsync entirely is a nice luxury on a 120Hz panel. If you're exceeding 120fps and therefore experience significant tearing then you should increase the IQ or play a more modern game.
 
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I have the same issue.. Rushed posts when tired and rushed reading when supposed to be doing other things. Bah forums.
 
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a lot my games feel laggy despite very good fps. Battlefield bad company 2 feels very sluggish at the best of times. I suspecting my monitor has high imput lag or something. Can a monitors input lag inpact on your mouse cursor in games? Would going to 120hz improve this?
 
Speedy Pete said:
I also have the sluggish feel to bad company 2 but not other games, im sure its just the game
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Well i was told i was the only one in the battlefield thread. My 4870x2 was a wee bit poorly so i upgraded to a 470 which im very pleased with. DX11 is nice. But Far Cry 2 also gives sluggish peformance max out with high fps. I dont understand why this happens. Are we just in the age were consoles ports to pc are not getting the proper treatment.
 
My mate at work absolutely swears by his 120hz monitor for gaming and usually has v-sync off as he says it is noticeably laggy though the human brain does tend to enhance the truth somewhat ;)
 
I was really surprised by how little input lag there was with v-sync on on my 120Hz monitor.

It was noticeably better than my other monitor. In fact the input lag was so small that I thought v-sync was off so had to double check.
 
I dont get why i get mouse lag or the mouse feels heavy when turning. I have well on 60 fps in a lot of my games. Call of duty Modern warefare 2 seems to be the only game that runs without the mouse being laggy at maxed out settings. Far cry 2 and battlefield at max has some sort of heavy mouse movement. Could it down to my monitors input lag?
 
dmxdex2020 said:
a lot my games feel laggy despite very good fps. Battlefield bad company 2 feels very sluggish at the best of times. I suspecting my monitor has high imput lag or something. Can a monitors input lag inpact on your mouse cursor in games? Would going to 120hz improve this?
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Yes, every monitor has a different input lag. If you read a review they will usually test the input lag. Anything under 20ms is pretty good, and for most people will not lead to a feeling of "lag". If you enable vsync, then it will add a lot more lag to this (see my post above). The 120Hz screens tend to have a low input lag, but there are plenty of other screens that have low input lag too.

What screen are you using?
 
95thrifles said:
You can say that again, its amazing how many people on these forums claim to have better reaction times than those of world class olympic athletes, and put themselves comfortably inside the top 0.01 percentile of the population
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php
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There's a difference between reaction times and perception of delay. Reaction time tests measure the gap between seeing a signal, and enacting a response, but if the lag on your equipment is less than this lag time you can still perceive it as being sluggish.

Taking myself as an example, I've taken these tests before, and my reaction time is around 80-100ms in general. But still, anything over 20ms seems sluggish, and enabling vsync (on my 60Hz screen) makes the controls seem very sluggish indeed.
 
Coming from a scientific background I would like to chime in here. It is widely accepted that the human eye is unable to 'process' delays below about 6 or 7ms. Given the overall input lag there is no reason why people wouldn't be sensitive to this processing delay. It is something I am very accutely aware of and is why I can tell how a monitor is for input lag just by using it. Because I am strange and prefer low mouse sensitivity settings I genrally find input lag to be fine, to a certain degree. It gets past a certain point where I do find it unacceptable, even in non-fps titles.
 
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