Remote Start

MikeHiow said:
So you're avoiding the real question with pedantry. He was not requesting proof that technology has moved on, but rather than cold idling was a problem in 1920 and not now.

Let me help you move out of this trolling loop. Proof of the aforementioned, please?
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You can't do one without the other. If you think that today's engines are no further advanced than 1920's models and you also think that fuel, oil and engine management (the main causes for engine failure at low rpm's) are no better than 1920's models....

you must be living in a different troll like world
 
cmon he means prove that it was harmful to leave a 1920's car running stationary at idle! how difficult was that to understand?
 
Nomisf said:
I'm not oil engineer, but I would imagine regardless of how new the oil is - it still works better at full temperature, that and the possibly lower/uneven oil pressure in a higher mileage engine at idle wouldn't help. My Rover 75 Diesel has a fuel burning heater, a £500 item, for the sole purpose of helping the engine warm up - so it must be of some use.
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Vehicles are more efficient and what not when warm so the quicker it warms up the better for money saving and fuel economy. I have always started cars and left them warm up in the cold weather never done any harm.
 
Fantom said:
This is shocking, can someone not source somewhere reliable which advises the proper start up behaviour?

Im of the belief that it does no harm, it will warm the engine up slowly... (im thinking about modern cars >1998)
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just look at your owners manual.
 
Fantom said:
This is shocking, can someone not source somewhere reliable which advises the proper start up behaviour?

Im of the belief that it does no harm, it will warm the engine up slowly... (im thinking about modern cars >1998)
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And you would be correct in that assumption.

Starting a cold car and allowing it to get to working temperature whilst placing no load on the engine is far better that starting a cold engine and placing load on it before the oil and internals are brought up to working temp.
 
Gav said:
only when they are hot. When cold there is no need for them to return to the "EXPANSION TANK". It's all in the name. It's not a circulation tank. It's function is to allow for the expansion of water when it is heated. The returning water to the header tank is a byproduct not a requirement
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no. they do it when they are cold. its a continuous thing whilst the engien is running but as i saw on satuday just gone, the flow doesnt start until the revs have picked up

what car/engine experience do you have?
 
Gav said:
And you would be correct in that assumption.

Starting a cold car and allowing it to get to working temperature whilst placing no load on the engine is far better that starting a cold engine and placing load on it before the oil and internals are brought up to working temp.
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Whats no load?

The load on cam bearings are much higher at idle.
 
I really dont think the difference in engine wear is even measurable.

My neighbour's piece of **** vectra receives no maintenance and looks like its been dumped. He (eventually) gets it started then revs the conkers off it, cold, presumably thinking he's warming it up, or something. Im my opinion this is causing damage! I think the car sitting there idling would be a much better bet.
 
Gav said:
You can't do one without the other. If you think that today's engines are no further advanced than 1920's models and you also think that fuel, oil and engine management (the main causes for engine failure at low rpm's) are no better than 1920's models....

you must be living in a different troll like world
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I don't dispute that engines are more advanced than they were in the 1920s. I don't even dispute that it isn't as much of a problem on modern engines. I do dispute that the reasons you provide are sufficient to make persistent and lengthy cold idling in order to heat your car, is not longer a problem at all.


Gav said:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2063947_start-car-cold-weather.html
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Really?
 
I idle mine to warm up, only when I cant see anything through the screen and Im outside pouring water on it arm with a squeegy!

Half my radiator is also blocked off although i think I could go even further to get the thing warming up properly.
 
I've always been of the belief that you shouldn't start an engine and leave it to warm up from stone cold for ages, either. It'll take ages to warm up because there's far less friction, the oil won't be flowing as best it can when idling and the oil is cold and thick, and engine wear is greater when the car is way below normal operating temperature with less lubrication. In my opinion. :p
 
Matt82 said:
no. they do it when they are cold. its a continuous thing whilst the engien is running but as i saw on satuday just gone, the flow doesnt start until the revs have picked up

what car/engine experience do you have?
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22 years of experience spread over various different makes/models and years. From air cooled to watercooled, turbo'd, supercharge'd and normally aspirated. Road cars, track cars and various different motorsport classes. Less so with bikes. Mainly off road water and air cooled.
 
Seems like an interesting debate.

I know my Corrado says that you should start and move off straight away but not sure about the golf or the actual reasoning behind it. But then the Corrado manual states that you shouldn't drive with your hand on the gear stick.

The Golf in questions is a 1.6 mk4 petrol to the person that asked. Also, I am not keen on starting with a key and leaving the spare in, all it takes is for someone to smash the window and they have the car.

I can't see how a remote start is a potential security risk though, purely because it can't be moved due to the immobilizer. And the main reason for doing it is purely to de-ice it. If fitting a 3rd party alarm system is needed then it's an option for the older cars, not sure about the golf though.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Whats no load?

The load on cam bearings are much higher at idle.
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The load is significantly less at idle.

When your flushing an engine you run it for 5 minutes at idle to help soften the oil deposits. If load was more then the engine would be damaged because of the lack of effective oil circulating the engine.
 
AHarvey said:
Seems like an interesting debate.

I know my Corrado says that you should start and move off straight away but not sure about the golf or the actual reasoning behind it. But then the Corrado manual states that you shouldn't drive with your hand on the gear stick.

The Golf in questions is a 1.6 mk4 petrol to the person that asked. Also, I am not keen on starting with a key and leaving the spare in, all it takes is for someone to smash the window and they have the car.

I can't see how a remote start is a potential security risk though, purely because it can't be moved due to the immobilizer. And the main reason for doing it is purely to de-ice it. If fitting a 3rd party alarm system is needed then it's an option for the older cars, not sure about the golf though.
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Fitting any remote start will bypass the factory immobiliser. It needs to do this so that it can actually start the car. When the car is running the immobiliser is still turned off so there is a slight security issue there. Thats why most remote starts are tied into aftermarket security systems. They allow for the car to be running AND the immobiliser to be in place at the same time.

There is a way of tying in a remote start to the factory alarm and retaining the factory remote. The unit i would use for it would be the Directed Electronics 561t
 
Gav said:
The load is significantly less at idle.

When your flushing an engine you run it for 5 minutes at idle to help soften the oil deposits. If load was more then the engine would be damaged because of the lack of effective oil circulating the engine.
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Prove it?

The cam bearings loads from the snout of the cam pushing the valvle allows spring load to build up at low rpm as you dont have the inertia of the cam collet carrying the tappet away from the cam surface at lift ramp.

For this reason running in new cams requires a high idle (2500rpm) period of around 30 mines.

The internal combustion engine is a mess of spinning and reciprocating engine. There is no load site that can be considered 'low load' as a generic statement.
 
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