Goodbye Harrier old friend

meghatronic · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:31

Goodbye, dear friend.

platypus · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:31

ubersonic said:
The harriers are redundant in most of their original roles these days as we have Tornadoes/Typhoons and of course Apaches.

This simply isn't the case though is it it? The VTOL capabilities of the Harrier make it significantly more appropriate for the terrain in Afghanistan. Whereas the Tornadoes, whilst being more expensive to run, required extending the airstrip at Kandahar, and has result in accidents because it's still not quite long enough for the plan to take off/land properly.

MOOGLEYS · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:32

Malt_Vinegar · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:34

What was the camera settings when taking that pic?

It looks terribly like that turbine on the refulling aircraft is not turning

oh, wait...

# Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 10/5000 second ===> 1/500 second ===> 0.002 second
# Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 100/10 ===> ƒ/10
# Exposure Program = landscape mode (8)
# ISO Speed Ratings = 100
# EXIF Version = 0221
# Original Date/Time = 2009:07:13 14:00:03

ubersonic · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:35

platypus said:
This simply isn't the case though is it it? The VTOL capabilities of the Harrier make it significantly more appropriate for the terrain in Afghanistan. Whereas the Tornadoes, whilst being more expensive to run, required extending the airstrip at Kandahar, and has result in accidents because it's still not quite long enough for the plan to take off/land properly.

Just because they did a substandard job on the runway doesn't make the harrier the best plane for the job, if you know where the target is a Tornado can get in, hit it and get out faster/safer than a harrier (their weak against anti air fire), if you don't know where the target is an Apache can find it jut as well if not better.

MOOGLEYS · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:35

Malt_Vinegar said:
What was the camera settings when taking that pic?

It looks terribly like that turbine on the refulling aircraft is not turning

Auto mate the outer blades do not turn they just angle the air into the first set of blades behind them ones..

Malt_Vinegar · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:37

MOOGLEYS said:
Auto mate the outer blades do not turn they just angle the air into the first set of blades behind them ones..

Interesting, do you know the principle behind that?
Give the blades more bite/increase or decrease intake speeds?

Presumably its air pressure related.

MOOGLEYS · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:38

The RAF have known for a few years the Harrier was destined for the bin. It was no suprise when they said it was finally going...

MOOGLEYS · 16 Dec 2010 at 10:39

Malt_Vinegar said:
Interesting, do you know the principle behind that?
Give the blades more bite/increase or decrease intake speeds?

I,m Avionics/Electrical mate would need to ask an Engine man. I will try and find one..

"Apparantly they start the air spinning into the turbine and stop blade chattering.....??? " Thats what the A/P (Aircraft publication) states.. What it means i have no idea...

Malt_Vinegar · 16 Dec 2010 at 11:06

MOOGLEYS said:
I,m Avionics/Electrical mate would need to ask an Engine man. I will try and find one..

"Apparantly they start the air spinning into the turbine and stop blade chattering.....??? " Thats what the A/P (Aircraft publication) states.. What it means i have no idea...

I get it

Cheers!

ubersonic · 16 Dec 2010 at 11:07

Im not an engine man either but my understanding would be if the air was flying straight into the blades it would create pressure, the faster the plane goes the more force exerted on the blades. With the angled ones diffusing the air the pressure will be lower as it will be swirling already. Just my guesstimate though.

Malt_Vinegar · 16 Dec 2010 at 11:21

ubersonic said:
Im not an engine man either but my understanding would be if the air was flying straight into the blades it would create pressure, the faster the plane goes the more force exerted on the blades. With the angled ones diffusing the air the pressure will be lower as it will be swirling already. Just my guesstimate though.

Essentially, just been reading up on it. The static vanes decrese the pressure build up on the front of the spinning intake.
It gets very complicated, but from what I can understand, the vanes create a low pressure area behind it where they would previously have been air stalling as it slams head on into the intake, which causes high pressure.

So, basically, the air into the engine has a smoother path and slips into the intake more cleanly.

They are called "stationary inlet guide vanes"

http://www.answers.com/topic/inlet-guide-vanes

DiCe! · 16 Dec 2010 at 12:15

200 jobs going at the site i work on because of this, very very sad. brillaint planes

Abraham · 16 Dec 2010 at 14:24

-Tauren- said:
i remember a un operational harrier going up for sale on ebay a while back.

that's no use though, pretty grand ornament

ubersonic · 16 Dec 2010 at 14:46

I could be way off on this but in order to own/operate a private harrier the pilot would require a civilian pilots licence and rating to fly jet VTOL aircraft and afaik the isn't such a rating available...

izzop · 16 Dec 2010 at 14:55

jak731 said:
Reading that article it says they are being decommissioned with our carriers both of which wil be replaced at the end of the decade, are we really going to be left with no carriers or strike craft for 9 years?

The harrier is a brilliant bit of kit, didn't realise it was 41 years old.

Yes, that is what it means, rather worrying i think and something this country no doubt will regret.

Abraham · 16 Dec 2010 at 14:58

ubersonic said:
I could be way off on this but in order to own/operate a private harrier the pilot would require a civilian pilots licence and rating to fly jet VTOL aircraft and afaik the isn't such a rating available...

would a former harrier pilot not have the credentials?

Malt_Vinegar · 16 Dec 2010 at 15:00

ubersonic said:
I could be way off on this but in order to own/operate a private harrier the pilot would require a civilian pilots licence and rating to fly jet VTOL aircraft and afaik the isn't such a rating available...

They would presumably be able to own it and fly it, but forbidden from using vtol.

For example, if i own a car that can do 200 miles an hour, i am licensed to drive it, just not at 200mph

ubersonic · 16 Dec 2010 at 15:12

Abraham said:
would a former harrier pilot not have the credentials?

I don't know, one would assume you cant just walk out the airforce and demand a pilots licence you have to do the training/tests like everybody else. RAF pilots are great at what they do however its different to civilian aviation, im not going to say easier because the is nothing easy about a harrier but the radiowork/etc is less complicated. Ive heard my father and other pilots joking about ex-military pilots who think their ace because they have X hours of flight time but it counts for almost nothing in the real world and their still basically novices in many aspects.

Abraham · 16 Dec 2010 at 15:23

ubersonic said:
I don't know, one would assume you cant just walk out the airforce and demand a pilots licence you have to do the training/tests like everybody else. RAF pilots are great at what they do however its different to civilian aviation, im not going to say easier because the is nothing easy about a harrier but the radiowork/etc is less complicated. Ive heard my father and other pilots joking about ex-military pilots who think their ace because they have X hours of flight time but it counts for almost nothing in the real world and their still basically novices in many aspects.

I would have thought a fair amount counted towards it, especially those who fly within civillian airspace, I'm not sure what they would be lacking, but I'm no expert.