How does the new immigration stuff effect current workers?
- Thread starter ubersonic
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
[TW]Fox;18047101 said:I have no idea. I'm not even ever going to be an engineer either
Like those signs on photocopiers when they break - 'engineer called'
I turn into rageguy.
Hahaha, that was going to be my next comment actually .
I could half understand it if you were an engineer, you know try to protect your 'trade' or effort for your own level of experience....
It depends how literal you take it I suppose.
I'd say the guy was an engineer, but that's me (a very limited scope engineer mind you, and no I'm not talking about the photocopier 'dude')
I just hold a huge amount of respect for true engineers - you know, the ones that actually design and build things (I mean properly design, not decide which off the shelf electrical component goes where).
I consider them on a par with being a Doctor, Accountant, etc - but of course most dont as they think an engineer is the guy who comes to plug the sky box in.
Poor Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Soldato
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Where do you live? The 1990's? There is hardly anything left at that site, all gone overseas/elsewhere.
[TW]Fox;18047151 said:I just hold a huge amount of respect for true engineers - you know, the ones that actually design and build things (I mean properly design, not decide which off the shelf electrical component goes where).
I consider them on a par with being a Doctor, Accountant, etc - but of course most dont as they think an engineer is the guy who comes to plug the sky box in.
Poor Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Problem being, there aren't a lot of those engineers about anymore.
Even things like Civil Engineering etc, rarely are you doing something new and unique.
You are just picking a design or concept out of year 3/4 or whatever, and applying it in the field etc.
It just depends on how you look at it I suppose.
But yes, to me there are proffessional engineers and 'technical' engineers I suppose. Then just those who get tagged with 'engineer', like telecommunications etc.
What about a Chemical Engineer? Surely that's just a chemist scientist?
etc etc etc
It's an annoyance, but so too is trying to get a concrete definition in relation to the jobs sometimes.
Associate
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I severely fail to believe this.
My Dad has recently stopped being self employed as an A/C engineer, he has 25 years of experience at every level, from the bottom to the very top, has just about every qualification you can think of that he would need, can design/install/maintain an A/C system for anywhere (he does Porton Down research centre for example), yet he has still been searching for a permanent job since August/September. The only time I've ever actually heard of someone being turned down for being overqualified is with him.
And you say there's no one that can do the job.
Pure bull****
My Dad has recently stopped being self employed as an A/C engineer, he has 25 years of experience at every level, from the bottom to the very top, has just about every qualification you can think of that he would need, can design/install/maintain an A/C system for anywhere (he does Porton Down research centre for example), yet he has still been searching for a permanent job since August/September. The only time I've ever actually heard of someone being turned down for being overqualified is with him.
And you say there's no one that can do the job.
Pure bull****
I understand that they currently employ 650 people at the Colworth site.This makes it the third largest of their R&D centres, the Netherlands and Port Sunlight sites being larger with 1000 and 800 employees respectively.
http://www.unilever.co.uk/innovation/researchanddevelopment/onthemap/?WT.LHNAV=On_the_map
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Indeed. Your Father is probably looking because all the available jobs have gone to Filipino Professors who will work for the engineering equivalent of minimum wage...
Associate
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Is he an engineer?
I have no idea what you would call him, he probably doesn't care in the slightest.
But he can do everything from being given a diagram and installing to that, to designing a system with 20+ indoor/outdoor units, to running a company, to maintenance on anything.
Yesterday he was up in Oxford street doing work getting Boots' flagship store back up and running with A/C (yes in this weather!!).
Associate
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Indeed. Your Father is probably looking because all the available jobs have gone to Filipino Professors who will work for the engineering equivalent of minimum wage...
Would not surprise me.
Seeing as OP said "over three times minimum wage" and the going rate charged to a customer for just someone fitting units is at least £20-25 an hour, and can be more.
As already stated he needs to apply for a residence permit from the Home Office. These are issued 'in' country unlike an entry clearance or visa which can only be applied for abroad. He is legible for permanent residence if he has been working here legally for 5 years and will be granted indefinite leave to remain.
Three times minimum wage is pretty poor for a graduate engineer of the experience and qualifications that the OP seems to feel are impossible to find within the EU, it equates to little more than £34k/annum which seems to be the going rate for a standard HVAC installer.
First of all thank you to the people who answered my question instead of going on pointless rants oyuve been of much help 
Well the ones we do work for are not, Unilever are in port sunlight near the Wirral (ok not exactly the sticks ill admit, but we have to travel for them), Pilkington SG are in St Asaph, Optic Technium are too.
I personally don't care for the "call everybody with a spanner an engineer" mentality that seems to go on these days but in this case it is warranted, a basic technician would find a faulty circuit board and order a replacement, engineers like ours will look at it and if possible fix the board there and then, we have had cases of re soldering faulty tracks and in some cases reconfiguring an entire air handling unit to get a system running until the spare parts arrive.
For obvious reasons I cannot say where but we have one customer whos lab only has 3 out of 8 chillers functional because they are too cheap to have repairs/replacements done. A technicial would simply say the is nothing that he can do wheras because an engineer can design/build the entire thing he can use parts/sections from the faulty ones to keep the good ones going a little longer.
I do too, our guys designed and built these from scratch last year:
And that second one wasnt bought in bits (except for the fans and door handles obv) we designed it and then constructed the frame, made the panels and fitted/wired in anc configured all the controls. (its a heat recovery and air handling system btw).
In all seriousness, would he be willing to move to north west Wales? we still need more engineers and I would be willing to PM you our details for him to send his CV to us if your interested.
Oh ha ha, Ive said twice now he is not being underpaid for the work, he's on the same rate as the rest of the guys, and if they were not on a decent wage some of the would just move to the city for more money (living in a nice area is only worth so much).
I can assure you its above the going rate for a HVAC installer in these parts.
Well the ones we do work for are not, Unilever are in port sunlight near the Wirral (ok not exactly the sticks ill admit, but we have to travel for them), Pilkington SG are in St Asaph, Optic Technium are too.
[TW]Fox;18047048 said:
I personally don't care for the "call everybody with a spanner an engineer" mentality that seems to go on these days but in this case it is warranted, a basic technician would find a faulty circuit board and order a replacement, engineers like ours will look at it and if possible fix the board there and then, we have had cases of re soldering faulty tracks and in some cases reconfiguring an entire air handling unit to get a system running until the spare parts arrive.
For obvious reasons I cannot say where but we have one customer whos lab only has 3 out of 8 chillers functional because they are too cheap to have repairs/replacements done. A technicial would simply say the is nothing that he can do wheras because an engineer can design/build the entire thing he can use parts/sections from the faulty ones to keep the good ones going a little longer.
[TW]Fox;18047151 said:
I do too, our guys designed and built these from scratch last year:
And that second one wasnt bought in bits (except for the fans and door handles obv) we designed it and then constructed the frame, made the panels and fitted/wired in anc configured all the controls. (its a heat recovery and air handling system btw).
In all seriousness, would he be willing to move to north west Wales? we still need more engineers and I would be willing to PM you our details for him to send his CV to us if your interested.
Indeed. Your Father is probably looking because all the available jobs have gone to Filipino Professors who will work for the engineering equivalent of minimum wage...
Oh ha ha, Ive said twice now he is not being underpaid for the work, he's on the same rate as the rest of the guys, and if they were not on a decent wage some of the would just move to the city for more money (living in a nice area is only worth so much).
I can assure you its above the going rate for a HVAC installer in these parts.
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Associate
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There's your (and our) problem.
Everyone is along the M3 corridor, as all the job are.
He's in Salisbury and unfortunately doesn't want to relocate as we have family all around and live in a nice area.
Jobs are scarce around here though, less demand for A/C in these parts, and he's only kept going through old contacts he's had for years, regaining contracts he had with the business previously.
I do severely doubt there is no one else who could do the job, but I can understand that there is probably no one near you and you would have to get someone to relocate.
Which is in Merseyside is it not?
Ever thought of relocating your business to where the work and undoubtedly the pool of HVAC qualified installers are.
I don't question that it is the going rate for installers in your area (probably created by wage suppression due to companies importing labour
),I question that you NEED to import labour from outside the EU and that by doing so you are simply exacerbating the problem you find yourself and I severely doubt that the Filipino gentleman is as irreplaceable as you made out him to be in the OP, you simply do not wish to/cannot afford to pay the salaries that would attract those HVAC engineers/installers/technicians from within the EU.
Hence the Government limitations on non EU skilled labour.
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I live near Salisbury and I can understand why he wouldn't want to relocate. It is a great place to live. And yes skilled Jobs are scarce in Salisbury, however can he not find something along the M4 corridor, Swindon for example. It's only 45mins away, also Southampton is closer as is the Bournemouth conurbation and Basingstoke is not that far either. I travel around 30 miles each way myself.
I don't see the problem, my wife had to leave the UK to apply for residence after we were married. Why should he get special treatment ?