Diesel v petrol - pivotal decision point

Soldato
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There's a very active (I hesitate to use the word 'healthy') conversation often ongoing in this forum about diesel vs petrol. All sorts of performance threads etc, but for this thread I'm not interested in that.

Diesel is very frequently referred to as the economical choice. Yes, that argument is often picked apart with a lot of factors such as fuel cost, mpg, VED, servicing costs, reliability etc etc.

One factor often referred back to is the annual mileage, and this is really the point of my question. Why refer to the total number of annual miles to determine which fuel (or indeed go broader and look at engine type and other factors) is best, and instead look at how those journeys are made.

12,000 diesel miles per year would be far better than than 20,000 petrol miles per year if they were made over 12 journeys compared to 120 journeys. Use is far more important than distance.

The reason I raise this is that I use my car for very short miles during the week, and for 8 months of the year don't use it at all - I use my motorbike instead. But then at weekends every fortnight, I use the car for a 300 mile round trip on motorways to see my son.

Is this situation unique? Do we need to look at patterns of use rather than just total use in order to make an accurate judgement? or is annual mileage still adequate to cover enough situations to be used as a guideline?
 
I still believe that you're better off with a diesel if you're mainly doing town mileage as the fuel consumption figures are much further apart on the urban cycle than the others.

In your case, I think it depends on what your budget is as the diesel could well command a higher purchase price and cost more when it goes bang, whereas the petrol would drink more. That, and it won't sound like a tractor ;)
 
I still believe that you're better off with a diesel if you're mainly doing town mileage as the fuel consumption figures are much further apart on the urban cycle than the others.

Whereas I think the opposite - if you are doing mainly town mile does fuel economy matter at all? You don' rack up 20-30k a year just popping into town - the average speeds and average distance per trip are just too low to rack up serious mileage. Most of my driving is around town if you count 'number of journeys' - I make two trips a day 5-7 days a week, but not really more than 10 miles a day. Yet sometimes I'll do two more trips - but each is 200 miles...

Besides, diesels are not exactly super efficient on short trips - they take longer to reach operating temperature than a petrol car. When I used the 530d for a few weeks a few years back I was getting about 27mpg versus 21mpg from my 530i.

Around town is where a nice petrol engine makes the most sense. At 70mph on the Motorway you can't hear the diesel-din, whereas wafting about town is where its nice to have a silky smooth, silent idling 6+ cylinder petrol engine. It's just more pleasant to sit in.
 
[TW]Fox;18051430 said:
Around town is where a nice petrol engine makes the most sense. At 70mph on the Motorway you can't hear the diesel-din, whereas wafting about town is where its nice to have a silky smooth, silent idling 6+ cylinder petrol engine. It's just more pleasant to sit in.

this, 100%
 
I've never wafted around town before? :| Stop start stop start.... I can drive like miss daisy and still only hit 20mpg doing so in rush-hour traffic.

Part of me is thinking about a diesel but I'd miss the revs and noise of petrol I guess.
 
I've never wafted around town before? :|

Errr ok. Can you imagine sitting in that traffic inching forward so often with a 4 pot diesel shuddering away in the front, making its presence felt both through the hateful din and resonance throughout the cabin? Most diesel owners will argue for ever this doesnt happen but I've noticed it on every single 4 cylinder diesel car I've ever driven. Without exception.

Stop start stop start.... I can drive like miss daisy and still only hit 20mpg doing so in rush-hour traffic.

And how many miles do you actually cover in such traffic? Not very many I'd guess. So why does it really matter how many miles per gallon you get if you don't do many miles in the first place?
 
Wafting along in my auto S90 is indeed a fantastic experience, but when it's gulping fuel at 20mpg, I'd rather be in my old Leon. Even with the extra weight of the haldex and my stupidly heavy right foot, it'd never go below 35mpg.

Having said that, the price difference between petrol and the Fuel of Satan™ is nowhere near as big in the UK as it is over here, which is certainly something I haven't taken into account.

Actually wait, the mixed cycle is barely above 20mpg on the Lolvo. Proper town driving has got to push it well into the teens :(
 
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[TW]Fox;18051773 said:
Can you imagine sitting in that traffic inching forward so often with a 4 pot diesel shuddering away in the front, making its presence felt both through the hateful din and resonance throughout the cabin? Most diesel owners will argue for ever this doesnt happen but I've noticed it on every single 4 cylinder diesel car I've ever driven. Without exception.



And how many miles do you actually cover in such traffic? Not very many I'd guess. So why does it really matter how many miles per gallon you get if you don't do many miles in the first place?

Well I have silly stuff like a polybushed dog bone mount which introduces vibration into the cabin @ low revs, so... probably :D

Home to work is 5 miles and back is the same obviously... but I don't just drive to and from work all week, I go elsewhere also. Sitting in traffic makes a difference to my average without a doubt thus costs me more. If I work better hours such as 10am to 6:30pm and avoid the traffic I definitely notice the difference in how much I pay at the pumps every week.

But I aint here for an argument Fox :)

Also, I have it in my head diesels cost more to keep running, can have more costly problems, they used to need servicing more regularly and loads of brands tend to rattle their DMF's to bits... maybe myths for some but that puts me off a bit too. Good on fuel, cheap tax, but if that is instantly offset with repair costs then it doesn't make any sense to change.

I aint got the money for these big saloons with big engines anyway so I won't be doing any wafting like you posh folk :p
 
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Your commute to work is exactly the same distance wise as mine then. I used a 320d Auto for it once and got 27mpg :D

It's just not enough mileage for it to be worth thinking about - in an entire month of commuting I do HALF the miles I'll do if I pop to the girlfriends place. The only time I care about MPG is when I'm on the Motorway, because thats where you'll rack up the miles.

10 miles a day to work is 200 miles a month commuting. At 20mpg thats £54. Fifty Four Quid!!! If you got a car that did 30mpg you wouldnt even save enough money to buy a Dominos pizza in a month!
 
[TW]Fox;18051822 said:
10 miles a day to work is 200 miles a month commuting. At 20mpg thats £54. Fifty Four Quid!!! If you got a car that did 30mpg you wouldnt even save enough money to buy a Dominos pizza in a month!
That's still over £500 a year..

Not to mention the tax saving ;)
 
I know it aint accurate but if I use the trip computer... rush hour if I'm doing 9-5's it'll sit around 20mpg and take me half an hour to do 5 miles. Now if it's 10-6ish I can just get home in 10-15 mins driving nice and smoothly and see 32mpg on the trip computer. If I go on the motorway and do a leisurely 65mph over a LONG distance I've seen up to 48.5mpg! Which is quite good, it's a couple of mpg out most of the time when I work it out (over-reads) but it seems accurate enough to tally in with my petrol gauge.

I think I spend about 160-200 quid a month on fuel. I do 80% driving around town, hardly ever touch the motorway. Some dual carriageways but thats it.
 
I know it aint accurate but if I use the trip computer... rush hour if I'm doing 9-5's it'll sit around 20mpg and take me half an hour to do 5 miles.

To be honest that seems awfully crap for a Golf. Thats what I get out of my 3 litre, 1605kg 5 Series over the same distance..

It's on 18.9mpg at the moment with the idling whilst de-icing etc. Not filled up for about 3-4 weeks mind.
 
It doesn't like sitting in traffic. It consistently gives around 30-34mpg around town (worked out myself rather than trip computer) which isn't too bad and I don't always keep it off boost otherwise whats the point in me having the car :)

But when my annoying missus wants to "go for a drive" I sit there watching the fuel gauge if we clock up 100 miles in a night pootling around on our mini adventures :D And at times like that, diesel economy sounds good.
 
[TW]Fox;18051430 said:
Around town is where a nice petrol engine makes the most sense. At 70mph on the Motorway you can't hear the diesel-din, whereas wafting about town is where its nice to have a silky smooth, silent idling 6+ cylinder petrol engine. It's just more pleasant to sit in.

Couldn't agree anymore.

My heart used to sink a tad when I'd work out my monthly MPG for the commute to work and it'd be dwindling in the low teens. Petrol seems super expensive and in my weaker moments I floated the idea of getting something cheaper to run but once you look at the figures they differences are so minute they aren't worth thinking about.

This is the problem with many people and the whole issue of "MPG being the new MPH" in terms of bragging rights. People don't stop to consider and study the actual figures and compare it to their usage profile. Instead they take the headline figure and run with it, thus a Diesel seeming attractive. It's actually one of my pet peeves and is why I refuse to "Spec" cars for people in person. "But the diesel does 50MPGz!!!" - Not if your 8 miles commute through central London it doesn't! :mad:
 
[TW]Fox;18051773 said:
Errr ok. Can you imagine sitting in that traffic inching forward so often with a 4 pot diesel shuddering away in the front, making its presence felt both through the hateful din and resonance throughout the cabin? Most diesel owners will argue for ever this doesnt happen but I've noticed it on every single 4 cylinder diesel car I've ever driven. Without exception.

Diesels make themselves painfully known at low speeds and in traffic, anyone who says they don't sound like a challenger tank is feebly fibbing - or deaf
 
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