Its still not self aware the key being it was "programmed" - its just following a set of rigid logic.
Meaning of life and Consciousness ?
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Its still not self aware the key being it was "programmed" - its just following a set of rigid logic.
Your thinking of simplistic decisions, most people perhaps make straightforward cause and effect choices, meaning they dont really ever make any choices at all. But you can, or minds are able to encompass/simplify cause and effects and then change our courses.
You can be influenced by emotions you can distance yourself from emotions and take another choice.
We dont even see things the same in different days our moods change.
Two people arguing there was a cause and effect, they argue for hours until they are blue, one calms down and sees the others point of view, then the other sees that ones point, they stop arguing.
If there was just cause and effect there would be no reason for them to change, they would just be rigid like rocks headbutting each other till they are entirely worn away.
So i'm guessing you believe that we cant replicate our human conscious in a robot.
Do you believe we were programmed ? by God or whatever
and you know how we are programmed, how? why do you assume we are not programmed (even though we know we are, reflex reactions, swimming as a baby and a 1001 other things)
if it knows it is thinking and can see itself it is self aware, to some degree. Obviously as humans we can be self-aware in many many aspects.
our dna means that are brains are extremely well programmed at birth and have the ability to learn and store info, which we then base descions on. this is no different to basic principles in modern robotics, just way more advance.
I don't get this need to make us overly complex, when there's no evidence to suggest this.
Man of Honour
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It may be a bit pointless but perhaps it's also the most realistic way to look at it - it's not excluding possibilities. In some ways the discussion can only go nowhere since none of us can provide a definitive answer (if we could then we shouldn't be discussing it on here, we should be publishing our results and basking in the adulation of a satiated populace having answered the unanswerable) although it's not necessarily less entertaining for the lack of absolutes here.
Even the act of being influenced by or choosing to ignore our emotions is based on reacting to previous stimuli... "I chose to ignore my emotions this time because last time it didn't go so well"
I have no idea if we were "programmed" or not, I don't believe we can replicate self awareness in a robot - we could in theory make something very complex that could mimic human behaviour perfectly, but it wouldn't be aware of what it was doing.
Your not seeing the way I'm looking at it and infact making it more complex than my viewpoint actually is. Learning and storing information is just another complex process of cause and effect which can be broken down to a very primitive on/off state... being actually aware of that process is a whole different thing entirely and something thats completely beyond the ability of what is essentially a glorified number counter however complex you make it.
I understand that, but I was just trying to find out if there reason for thinking rather and thus adding some debate, rather than trying to prove anything, especially as Rroff had said cause and effect.
It's not though, modern robots like Asimo can make decisions based on past success or lack of past events. You only have to go a bit deeper to get to where we are, the leap is not massive in thought process although building and programming it is much harder and a long way off. Our brains isn't one large cpu it is a massively parallel device, which is able to analyse and reanalysis info extremely fast and identify difference things.
Asimo is nothing like as advanced as you think. I can make a simple interactive text program that can hold a conversation with someone, programmed to store and "learn" from input and refine its "ability" to communicate, it will never be self aware no matter how complex I program it.
it's very advance for robots, but not compared to us.
with future hardware and programming. What is stopping you from making it self aware.
what is stopping you from programming a future version to learn and keep relearning it's own image and to test itself. or to sense "pain" and realise that relates to itself and not something else. this is not outside programming ability and it compares to what we experience. But yet you assume there must be something more to it.
Jeff bridges managed it. lol
Clu and tron are examples of AI programs with conscious. (I know its fictional)
Kinect has now given us the ability to emulate the minority report.
That big jump your making from simple building blocks to self awareness.
I'm not, because I'm assuming self awareness is nothing more that it's definition, which is based on pretty simple building blocks and just requires a certain level of parallel and inventive use to re analyse the data. Something we do extremely well, analysing and re analysing massive amounts of data, due to the way a brain works. Which is like a computer with millions of cpus all easily able to do there own thing and if needed know exactly which other cpu to pass the info on to be analysed in a different part of the brain.
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How and why? Both of them can be inbuilt so is very little difference to the first.
You telling me a robot can't be programmed to recognise itself from other versions that look identical?
You telling me computers can't do error checks on it's own calculations?
Your telling me computers can't be programmed to make a choice on pass success rates of it's "life" events?
these are the basic building blocks that just need advancing.
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I think linear equations, might be unable to become self aware(although I think if any language was able to become self aware then it would be Lisp)
Look at it another way you can see yourself and the choices you would make, and make another.
The whole reason for large minds such as ours is to avoid the predetermined cause and effect collisions.
Whenever we make a choice with higher knowledge, then we are circumventing normal cause and effect. Things like when we eschew baser instincts, food, sex, violence.
Look at it another way you can see yourself and the choices you would make, and make another.
The whole reason for large minds such as ours is to avoid the predetermined cause and effect collisions.
Whenever we make a choice with higher knowledge, then we are circumventing normal cause and effect. Things like when we eschew baser instincts, food, sex, violence.
When you create a robot, its controlled by a program, a sequence of instructions that are executed based on an immutable logic, the program has no awareness of what its doing however complex you make it, there is no capacity for self awareness in any part of the program. You can make it as complex as you like but it will still execute instruction are instruction exactly as ordered with no ability to comprehend or change that. You can give the program the "ability" to modify its own code but it will only ever change its code based on instructions within the code, it can't change its code at will, every time it changes its code its due to cause and effect within the code itself. You can not program self awareness, no robot based on current or future electrical impulse based programming and hardware will ever be self aware ever.
Take this and apply it to the basic building blocks of our dimension, at the smallest level its just tiny bits of energy (no one actually knows what energy really is), the actions of this energy are based on very simple cause and effect logic, everything in this "existance" is based on complex chains of these impulses just like a program, billions of tiny "instructions" that have no awareness and no capacity for awareness of what they are doing or ability to change the outcome of their programming.
To be fair at quantum level there are principles of uncertainty, etc. which can not be explained inside the model, we could make up some complex reasoning for them that would explain self awareness... more likely the simplest explanation is its due to external influences - think of it like a program 1+1 = 2 unless the programmer externally adjusts the rules.
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Soldato
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We are born with prorams allready written. We cannot change are programing at will and follow sets of onstrictions, there is noghing to sugest we are anymore than a complex computer,. Just because we can not make self aware programs yet, it is totaly wrongto auggedt we can not. The principles are not that hard.
Selg awareness is cause and effect, it is the effect of being able to readon, which itself is built on the badic blocks. There's noyhing to stop uou programming any of this. Ecxcept the technology is not advance enough.
Selg awareness is cause and effect, it is the effect of being able to readon, which itself is built on the badic blocks. There's noyhing to stop uou programming any of this. Ecxcept the technology is not advance enough.
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