I want new speakers!

Freakitchen · 31 Dec 2010 at 12:28

...and wondered whether any knowledgeable hi-fi people could provide some advice. I've been to a couple of independent shops and have some good advice but I don't like to buy anything without researching it first!

At the moment I have an old Yamaha system with bookshelf speakers, I'm looking to upgrade these to a good set of floorstanders with big sound. Will be used primarily for music. Would also appreciate advice on a good amplifier to power them.

An approx. budget for everything is £1500 as a maximum. A secondary want is to connect my old Yamaha speakers as an additional set to improve the sound coming from my TV! So I'll either need an amp to do Speakers A & B, or a speaker switching box. I'll also need a DAC as the signal from both TV and computer (where I store my music) will be an optical. I was recommended a Cambridge Audio unit for around £200.

Appreciate any advice!

9designs2 · 31 Dec 2010 at 13:46

So you want new speaker, an amp and a DAC for 1500 notes ?
Is the TV in the same room ? ..... or why would you not just connect TV to new amp and speakers and ditch the old ones.

What did the dealers recommend. They are the best place to start, allows you to try some brands and find what suits your taste.

Freakitchen · 31 Dec 2010 at 14:12

Yep, that's the concise version of my ramblings!

The TV is in the same room yes, but I spend much more time at the computer listening to music. The TV is in one corner, the computer in the other, so I can't figure out a placement for a single set of speakers that would suit both, unfortunately. I think I'd always be sat much closer to one speaker than the other if I didn't have a set for each.

Yesterday I was shown an Arcam amplifier connected to a pair of Focal speakers. Not sure of the exact models but they were priced at £600 for the speakers and a similar amount for the amplifier. A big upgrade from what I've got, do you know anything about these or something I should be looking at?

lucid · 31 Dec 2010 at 15:29

I rate Focal speakers very highly.

Of all the Hi-Fi brands I've listened to - including popular choices with Mag reviews such as B&W, Kef, Monitor Audio and Dali - I've yet to find any which get closer to the soul of the music. Ruark probably is the other brand I'd shortlist, but it has been a while since I listened to their products.

Amplifier choice is slightly trickier because you need a Digital inputs. That tends to rule out most of the pure Hi-Fi brands.

It's probably not what you were thinking of, but... have you considered a secondhand Arcam AV Receiver?

Arcam AV receivers are renown for being the best for music. They successfully marry digital and analogue technologies and make great sounding products for music enthusiasts who want to watch movies as well. I'm aware that you don't want to watch movies; you want a stereo system, which is why the Arcam AV receiver range would be a great choice. You get digital inputs, fab stereo sound, and... as a bonus... really good 2nd zone capabilities with some of the models (AVR250, -280, -300, -350). I've installed a few of the 350s. They have independent 2nd zone control. The two zones can be run together or completely independently.

Head over to AV Forums and check out their classifieds section. These amps are still in high demand despite having no HDMI inputs. This goes to show that people who know music know what to buy.

AVR200 spotted FS @ £200

AVR350 - £450

That would leave you some budget for some decent speaker cable (Chord Rumour) and a bit of change too

Somnambulist · 31 Dec 2010 at 16:27

I'm looking at nearfield Focal monitors for my NAS* > Mac > DAC* > active speakers* setup, and while they're a bit pricier than the equivalent ones by say, Adam, they seem to get universally praised for sounding fantastic.

* = don't own yet!

Freakitchen · 1 Jan 2011 at 15:31

lucid said:
Snip

Thanks for the comments. I was impressed by the Focals myself but it's good to get a second opinion. Seems like the Focal/Arcam combination I was recommended by the bloke at the dealer was a good one.

Because of the optical connections, it was my intention to buy a DAC and a proper hi-fi amp. Are the prices you mention for the Arcam AV Receiver second hand prices? They're obviously way less than the £600 I was quoted for the amp!

lucid · 1 Jan 2011 at 16:11

Yeah. I thought the big clue was in the thread when I wrote

lucid said:
... have you considered a secondhand Arcam AV Receiver?

Head over to AV Forums and check out their classifieds section.

The current entry-level Arcam AV receiver is approx £2,600 new. It's quite a bit of kit of course, but still a big ask. The higher model is £3,500

The older receivers generally had retail prices of around £1000 - £1200 at launch. AFAIK they kept the price about the same but added new features and upgrades with each successive new model.

AVR200 was launched back in '02 I think. It needs reasonably efficient speakers if you want to go loud. The Focals are efficient, so that's a good match. The later AVRs - 250, 300, 350 all had more power.

AVR350 is the last of the line that didn't do HD Audio decoding. The 350 has HDMI sockets, but only acts as a switch. It doesn't do anything with sound over HDMI. I'd rate it's 2ch performance as good as any serious Hi-Fi stereo amp at £500-£600 retail. Beyond that it's personal preference on the amplifier "sound" that suits your taste most. Arcam is considered detailed and refined. Rega (Brio approx £300) is dynamic, fast but bass shy. Creek (Evolution 2 - £600) falls somewhere between the two.

If you get a really good DAC to go with a good stereo amp then you might improve on the sound. The limit to sound quality will then be your sources. Highly compressed MP3 will sound pretty dire for serious listening, but OK as background music. Uncompressed music (FLAC etc) should sound pretty good.

Freakitchen · 3 Jan 2011 at 00:57

Oops! I fail at reading it would seem. Will certainly look into the AV reciever idea. My only conundrum is whether I'd be truly happy with buying second hand when spending this much. I know you can spend much more on hi-fi but this is still a fair whack for me, and I'd like to keep it a long time. My music *is* compressed, which is why I'm conscious of going too overboard, but most of it is 320k MP3. My main concern was whether I was on the right lines with the brands, you've allayed my fears on that score so thanks!

lucid · 3 Jan 2011 at 02:27

My view re second-hand as a value proposition is simple - It wins.

I look at it like this; If I buy a decent bit of second-hand in nice condition I can always sell it again for close to what I paid. So I get to try bits of gear out for a very minimal cost. It's what I did when I bought my first AV amp 10 years ago.

Every review I read and lots of owners comments said how good the Denon 3801 was and how it was one of the best AV amps for music at the time. These things were the thick end of a grand when new. I bought for 30% of that and quickly found the truth. Blumming awful for music compared to my old £150 Cyrus amp. It was clear that reviewers and end users hadn't got much of a clue about decent music reproduction LOL. I sold it on pretty quickly. The cost to try it - £30. Had I bought new... I could have easily waved goodbye to £300-£400. :eek:

The other compelling argument is quality. A £1000 amp is generally better engineered than a £500.... and if I buy what was a £1000 amp for less than the cost of a £500 amp. Well, you can see where that goes.

At the end of the day you are the one who has to choose and live with the gear. My first Hi-Fi was bought new many moons ago, and I was very happy with it. But that was at a time when specialist dealers really gave outstanding service even if you were buying budget gear, so I felt like I got value from their time, expertise and after-sale care. If you are happy that your dealer is delivering on that level then go ahead and buy new.