So my train ticket went up 10% how about you?

[Darkpilgrim]

Catch 22 though isnt it? If they dont charge more to generate more income where does the money to increase seating come from?

Well like most business they should buy new stock with there profits.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well like most business they should buy new stock with there profits.

a) Many of them don't make sufficient profits to purchase rolling stock
b) Almost all of them don't actually buy rolling stock anyway
c) Why would they do that if the investment appraisal shows that the investment would not provide an acceptable return?

Remember, if 500 people board Train A, train company A doesnt suddenly get 500 x fare.

 

[Dolph]

I think the rail passengers are getting an even harder time.

It is now more expensive to take the train on my trips to the Midlands than it is to drive there in a 3 litre car with £1.25 a litre fuel.

That surely isnt right.

This isn't a new situation, if you discount the ludicrously conditioned offers that are run by the rail companies. I can go back 8 years or so, and cite a journey to Nottingham from Plymouth where it was cheaper to one-way hire a car and fuel it than to take two people up on the train at a sensible time. (we were collecting a car up there, so only needed to go one way, and the restrictions on 'supersaver' tickets made them completely unsuitable for the journey).

The problem is that we don't have a good train network with good capacity and working competition, we have a series of local monopolies with no real competition and a situation where demand outstrips supply but there is a structural disincentive against increasing supply due to stupid contracts, so prices rise significantly to try and lower demand to available supply levels.

The problem is, with nimbyism and the pro-nationalisation brigade constantly getting in the way, we have no real signs of improvement on the horizon with our rail network.

 

[Dolph]

Well like most business they should buy new stock with there profits.

It makes no sense to do this the way the rail contracts are structured. There is massive one off cost with no real prospect of paying it back in any sort of guaranteed or controlled manner...

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's always been the case that two people in a car are considerably cheaper than rail (2x train tickets to Edinburgh £250, or £160 fuel in my car, I drove). But one person in a wasteful car should be cheaper by train, surely..

 

[Dolph]

It's always been the case that two people in a car are considerably cheaper than rail (2x train tickets to Edinburgh £250, or £160 fuel in my car, I drove). But one person in a wasteful car should be cheaper by train, surely..

Only if the ticket cost is being dictated exclusively by journey cost (ie there is no capacity issue on the journey).

If there is capacity for 100 people on the journey, and 500 people want to take it, then the ticket cost is the highest one that 100 people will pay regularly, and entirely unrelated to the actual cost of running the journey.

Our passenger rail system is running over capacity on most routes for much of the time, due to a poor privatisation plan by the Tories and a complete failure to correct it (in fact, they made it worse) by Labour that means that investment in rolling stock or capacity improvements are so far out of sense that the rail franchises couldn't even borrow money to do it during the credit boom. The only reason the pendolino trains came about with Virgin was the result of a custom contractual agreement that ensured that if something happened and virgin lost the franchise, the next franchise holder would be obliged to purchase the rolling stock contracts from them and take on the associated obligations with the upgrade. This process has not been repeated for any other line.

We need to rethink our entire rail system, but there is too much wishful thinking and not enough actual thinking among the populace to do so.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

If somebody can give me a good reason why half a Virgin train is empty first class, while the rest of the train is packed to the point of standing with steerage, then I will consider the overpriced rail fares. Until then, the rail companies can go to hell.

 

[[TW]Fox]

If somebody can give me a good reason why half a Virgin train is empty first class, while the rest of the train is packed to the point of standing with steerage, then I will consider the overpriced rail fares. Until then, the rail companies can go to hell.

Virgin do not operate any trains where 50% of the capacity is First Class.

Infact, on a typical Virgin service only 1/3 of the total capacity is First Class.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Virgin do not operate any trains where 50% of the capacity is First Class.

Infact, on a typical Virgin service only 1/3 of the total capacity is First Class.

How many seats are there in first class cabin? How many seats are there in a steerage cabin? I am not talking about capacity, i'm talking about train carriages. A train is a certain maximum length determined by station length. Imagine if just one of those first class carriages was uncoupled and replaced with a normal one

 

[FreeStream]

It's always been the case that two people in a car are considerably cheaper than rail (2x train tickets to Edinburgh £250, or £160 fuel in my car, I drove). But one person in a wasteful car should be cheaper by train, surely..

Surely if you take into account everything to do with the car (Maint, Insurance, etc) then the train would become cheaper.

It's a case of public transport IS cheaper if you don't actually own a car.

But seeing as most of us do [own a car], and thus have to pay insurance and what not anyway, public transport is a rip off.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Surely if you take into account everything to do with the car (Maint, Insurance, etc) then the train would become cheaper.

I deliberately discount fixed and capital costs because I already own my car, and will never sell it in favour of public transport. Therefore fixed and capital costs are already paid for irrespective of whether I use the car or not.

Therefore, for most people, public transport is something that should supplement car ownership not replace it.

 

[SniperDude]

bus is just as bad here in Liverpool

£1.80 and rising to go 1 stop and you can never get a seat.
it's actually cheaper to order a private hire Taxi nowadays if their is more than one person travelling within a couple of miles.

 

[[TW]Fox]

How many seats are there in first class cabin? How many seats are there in a steerage cabin? I am not talking about capacity, i'm talking about train carriages. A train is a certain maximum length determined by station length. Imagine if just one of those first class carriages was uncoupled and replaced with a normal one

Then the train company would generate less revenue.

People pay a considerably large amount of money for the peace and quiet that First Class affords them. Often a single First Class ticket holder will pay more than perhaps 3 or even 4 standard class ticket holders.

Welcome to the fact the railway network is now a business with a duty to maximise shareholder value.

 

[Amp34]

ohh **** off if i want to get the bus to work i will and FYI i am not fat and unfit.

you might enjoy walking to work in 6inchs of snow as a one off but if you do it every day for 2 weeks you will find its not as much fun as it was doing it for one day especially once the snow turns to slush and its like walking through a desert or once everywhere starts to get icey and you risk an injury or a very careful walk that takes atleast twice aslong

who said 6 bus stops is 1-2 miles anyway? and its a 30min walk even in nice weather and thats with very long legs walking at a fast pace.

Missed my post about walking to work the whole of last winter, including through the snow? Apparently so...

Either way don't moan about the cost of a short distance bus ticket, a ticket you don't even need to use.

As I already pointed out generlly going long distance on a bus is pretty cheap (if long winded), short distance singles have always been comparitively expensive.

EDIT: ie. £2 will get you a single for a 2 mile journey. £5 will get you a return for a 30 mile journey.

 

[solado]

I travel through birmingham to kidderminster on a regular basis and i used to pay £9 for a single (they do not offer returns for some unknown reason) after a year this has risen to £9.60. So this is a 7% increase ? (or there abouts).

I suppose its lucky i was eligible for a 18-24 young persons rail card else it does build up over time rapidly.

 

[SiD the Turtle]

I travel through birmingham to kidderminster on a regular basis and i used to pay £9 for a single (they do not offer returns for some unknown reason) after a year this has risen to £9.60. So this is a 7% increase ? (or there abouts).

I suppose its lucky i was eligible for a 18-24 young persons rail card else it does build up over time rapidly.

I just checked on the National Rail site, they do offer returns? Unless you're returning the next day or similar I guess.

 

[Tunney]

My friend's ticket on First Capital Connect has gone up 83%!

The problem is that Britain was the first country to build a serious rail network. It's much more expensive to run than a newer system (i.e. Japan) and virtually impossible to upgrade when it's in constant use.

 

[[TW]Fox]

My friend's ticket on First Capital Connect has gone up 83%!

Errr really? Sounds like something else is at work there..

 

[cymatty]

My train ticket would have gone up from £55 a week to £59 a week, not a massive increase. Although I am now glad that I can walk to work.

 

[FreeStream]

I deliberately discount fixed and capital costs because I already own my car, and will never sell it in favour of public transport. Therefore fixed and capital costs are already paid for irrespective of whether I use the car or not.

Therefore, for most people, public transport is something that should supplement car ownership not replace it.

Hence the third line of my post