If China or Russia become militarily stronger than the west

Castiel said:
It is unlikely that the Mongols would have been successful in attacking the Holy Roman Empire in the long run, let's not forget that Europe was recovering from years of crusade and Pope Gregory (I forget which number) called crusade against the Mongols shortly before Subotai withdrew forcing Batu to withdraw with him.

Also it after the uniting figures of Genghis and Subutai passed the Empire fell inward on itself.

It would have been interesting though to see what would have happened, considering the Christian Soldiers of the vastly superior northern European Nations (as compared to the Eastern European Nations) were as blood thirsty and fervent as the Mongols ever were. Still if they had overrun Europe an entirely Islamic world might have been a little more peaceful......;)

I was really referring to after the 1400's however and the spread of European Influence (especially the Spanish, Portuguese and British) globally. (I'll be more precise in future...;))
Click to expand...

I'll let you off for mistaking 600 years with 2000 then just this once :p Although I think Subotai would have gone all the way to the channel. People treat the Mongols as some sidenote as if they were some just some savages yet they took Russia in the winter, suppressed Afghanistan, destroyed the Assassins at their source, decimated the Muslim military and gave the Chinese a bloody nose on more than a single occasion. All feats that have been collectively failed by the usually mentioned people and powers such as Guderian, Napolean, the USSR, the British Empire and now it seems the whole of Nato. Just goes to show what the ability to hit from range and the mobility to dictate range can do (and of course the fact they didn't care about collateral damage) which of course brings us back to why a single US carrier group is probably as powerful as most countries in their entirety.
 
Tysonator said:
True China and Russia have many more troops, tanks, etc.
The West have by far more technology advanced equipment, and carriers.
I think China have one carrier which they are trying fit out. However they lack the skill and knowledge of carriers which the GB and USA have had for almost a century !
Click to expand...

there were aircraft towards the start of the 20th century??
 
If theirs one thing that has come out of the 'war' in Iraq & Afganistan, is that now the UK&US have the some of highest battle trained personal and equipment in the worlds military(p?), somthing china and russia haven't had in years, save for afew skirmishes.

An army is only as good as its personal and whilst Russia and China probably have some specialist personal, the Uk&USA and some NATO countries outway them with better training and equipment by the majority. Imo anyways :p
 
Would living under the rule of a tyrant, dictator or communism be better than having to put up with another smarmy self satisfied speech by Down with da Kids Dave Cameron.

Yes, it would. It really, really, really would.
 
kwerk said:
Don't forget Russia has a CONSCRIPT army. Not exactly the most professional fighting force in the world.

Russian soldiers used for sex

Russian army conscripts used for gay prostitution

Russian army bullying 'horrific'
Click to expand...

Which they are addressing in their current restructuring and it is worth noting that the US does not employ a primarily standing army does it and what of all the rape allegations and controversy in the US military only last week if you want to demonise.
 
maustin said:
I'll let you off for mistaking 600 years with 2000 then just this once :p Although I think Subotai would have gone all the way to the channel. People treat the Mongols as some sidenote as if they were some just some savages yet they took Russia in the winter, suppressed Afghanistan, destroyed the Assassins at their source, decimated the Muslim military and gave the Chinese a bloody nose on more than a single occasion. All feats that have been collectively failed by the usually mentioned people and powers such as Guderian, Napolean, the USSR, the British Empire and now it seems the whole of Nato. Just goes to show what the ability to hit from range and the mobility to dictate range can do (and of course the fact they didn't care about collateral damage) which of course brings us back to why a single US carrier group is probably as powerful as most countries in their entirety.
Click to expand...

I never said 2000 years, I said a millenia, as in one thousand. Interestingly the few battles that the mongols fought with the the holy roman empire were stalemates. I think you underestimate the military strength of a united christendom.

I think Subotai saw the strength and superior technology of the Europeans and remember he allowed the hungarians to retreat because he realised that fighting to the death against heavy cavalry supported by crossbowmen was likely to inflict heavy losses on his men.

A lot is said of subotai's plans to invade central europe, but ultimately he would have found himself fighting a united army amassed by crusade, which had superior numbers and technology and fervour.

Lets not forget the Catholic Church spread Christianity into China and Asia because of the Mongols, and within a very short period after the death of the Khan and his generals the mongol empire was no more. In fact much of it converted to Islam which Ghengis was trying to eradicate despite his ecumicalism.

I got a good book somewhere on how the Mongols turned to diplomacy with Christendom rather than warfare, I'll dig it out and let you know what its called if your interested.
 
Last edited:
The OP is assuming that aeroplanes will decide the victor in a possible future war, why can't the deciding factor be something else?

Eavesdropping tech, satellites, weather control weapons, cyber attacks etc...
 
B&W said:
The OP is assuming that aeroplanes will decide the victor in a possible future war, why can't the deciding factor be something else?

Eavesdropping tech, satellites, weather control weapons, cyber attacks etc...
Click to expand...

Or a weaponized virus that only targets chinese genotypes.
 
I think that the USA has more advanced military technologies then it lets on.
They had stuff like the SR71 in the sixties! and b2 bombers in the early eighties imagine what kinda aircraft they have hidden from view now!.
I think it might even be possible that they have anti mavity technology at this point in time.
Saying that the Chinese have some very cool technology of they're own, some of which is prob even more advanced then the Wests.

http://www.darkpolitricks.com/2010/07/ufo-is-secret-chinese-military-aircraft/
 
Slam62 said:
China has the resources and the technology, the west has the technology but no resources (money).

But I take your point.
Click to expand...

Having spent 3 weeks in China recently, I can honestly say I'm not worried. Manpower obviously isn't an issue, but technology wise they just can't even come remotely close to the West. Their stealth fighter will most likely be made out of bamboo and will have 200 Chinese hanging off each wing.

China is indeed embracing technology at an incredible rate - I saw little old ladies in rice fields, miles from anywhere, whip out a Nokia and phone their friends. I stayed in places that barely had electricity and running water but had a nice wireless internet connection and PC. The problem is, most things they try and do themselves from scratch are rubbish - they haven't had to "get there" themselves and learn along the way....they just back-engineer Western stuff and quality control is generally none-existent.

Basically, their stealth fighter might look nice on paper - but it will be a piece of absolute junk, I guarantee.
 
Castiel said:
I got a good book somewhere on how the Mongols turned to diplomacy with Christendom rather than warfare, I'll dig it out and let you know what its called if your interested.
Click to expand...

If you wouldn't mind having a look the general impression from other books is that they found the bounty to be insufficient in Europe to suit their tastes.
 
I really think people are looking too much at the current circumstances, and focusing on money way too much.

Think about this exact discussion only at 1930
 
Curio said:
Basically, their stealth fighter might look nice on paper - but it will be a piece of absolute junk, I guarantee.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you're right... but....

"junk" or not, they'll make up for it in numbers.... which i know defeats the purpose of being "stealth" if it's detected.... but the general principle is what they lack in quality, they more than make up for in quantity......
 
Curio said:
Having spent 3 weeks in China recently, I can honestly say I'm not worried. Manpower obviously isn't an issue, but technology wise they just can't even come remotely close to the West. Their stealth fighter will most likely be made out of bamboo and will have 200 Chinese hanging off each wing.

China is indeed embracing technology at an incredible rate - I saw little old ladies in rice fields, miles from anywhere, whip out a Nokia and phone their friends. I stayed in places that barely had electricity and running water but had a nice wireless internet connection and PC. The problem is, most things they try and do themselves from scratch are rubbish - they haven't had to "get there" themselves and learn along the way....they just back-engineer Western stuff and quality control is generally none-existent.

Basically, their stealth fighter might look nice on paper - but it will be a piece of absolute junk, I guarantee.
Click to expand...

It's a bit foolish to dismiss China's military technology capability. China are behind on a lot of things, but they are moving at an increadible rate and I sincerely don't believe they will take long to begin creating their own technology which will surely place the Western powers into a bit of a worry.

And anyway, it was the soviets simplistic, mass produced and slightly innovative design in WWII which helped them grasp a victory...

I in no way believe China would do something as stupid as attacking the West, after all China is a very forward thinking Country...they are already spreading across the world for future profiteering and an attack on the West would provide no benefit, and if they did...I'd say keep us out of it. We'll do what we're bloody good at and that's trade. (That's if China forget about the Empires history and play nice :p)
 
maustin said:
And where are the links of these Chinese super subs - because by my reckoning to pop up next to a US carrier group they would have most likely had to sneak past at least 1 x SSN, 2 x DD, 2 x CGN etc amongst all the patrols from said vessels and the Ospreys + Vikings etc etc Very impressive - I am also very interested not only in where all this Chinese technical supremacy has come from but how they have enabled their personnel to skill up to the level to use such advanced technology so quickly without gained experience to guide etc.
Click to expand...

Here:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/13/20061113-121539-3317r/

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
Click to expand...

and whilst China may not have the technology now to threaten the US carriers with ballistic missiles in a few years it could be a different story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom