Disciplinary for Gross Misconduct

Call ACAS and explain the situation.

Sounds like they have poorly placed the button, but try to tell them this without coming across aggressive. I'd iterate that it was clearly an error made in a stressful environment, and this is only your first time "everyone makes mistakes, sorry guv" sort of thing.

They should have given you training on the operation of the till, so ask for proof of training with your signature if things get heated. The way you describe the conversation with the supervisor suggests (to me) that their training is poor, if you didn't know you could press it.
 
fini said:
I'd flat out claim that they were negligent with the placement of buttons. Not only were they negligent, but that they were aware of the negligence due to managers personally using the tills on occasions. I'd therefore suggest that serious action is taken to remedy such a problem that has now caused the store to lose it's immediate response cover - cover that is in place to provide protection to staff like you from potentially violent criminals. Following this loss has a risk assessment been completed on how they will now protect their staff if something does kick-off? If not, why not?

I'd secondly question why this supposed 'conversation' was only documented a week after the incident. If it had really taken place then surely he should have reported it up the chain. Surely you should have been reprimanded at that point? When exactly did this occur - was anyone else present? If not, isn't that just a little convenient. Has this manager ever been subject to grievances himself? Request a copy of any complaints ever made against them before the meeting so that you can properly prepare your case.

Thirdly, do you have the details of the customer who was at the till when you pressed the button? Surely they can provide a statement to say that your reaction was clearly one of distress rather than of amusement.

Finally, why do the cameras only show your bottom half? Surely the cameras should show the totality of the till so that, if you are punched in the face, it is recorded. Why are the security team putting financial crimes above crimes involving bodily integrity?

Make it very clear that, if the grievance is substantiated against you that you will find it an impossible environment to continue working in because (a) you will feel victimised and (b) you will be constantly worried of the same accident occurring in the future by you or colleagues (who now share your concerns). As such, you would consider any finding against you as constructive dismissal and would have no option, but to pursue the matter through an employment tribunal.

The most important piece of advice - TAKE SOMEONE IN WITH YOU. This can be almost anyone, but you want someone to be able to verify what was said and by whom.
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Lol I love you. Whilst I won't go as overboard as you have suggested, you have given me some points to discuss that I hadn't thought of!
 
AS_Platinum said:
By the sounds of it, these panic buttons are of single push variety? (ie: one red button). Was this a recent installation? if so, they should have been upgraded to at least grade 2 double push panic buttons.




Wrong. You get three lives in a rolling 12month period. The police vary rarely accept appeals.
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Three? Are you sure? A work colleague informed me the other day that another member of staff said in the canteen that he had accidentally pressed the button too, so I guess that makes sense... it would total three people pressing it.

The thing is, it IS a double push panic button. I honestly can't even understand how I could have managed to press both buttons, but it's the only logical explanation I can come up with. All I know it that I didn't press it on purpose, and they TELL me the CCTV footage of my hand looking like it's pressing the button is on time with when the alarm was recorded.

A member of staff came out on the day and was on the phone to Chubb, trying to work out which of the three separate buttons were pressed. At first she thought it was the one at the end of the tills, so I was relieved, and then 2 weeks later it changed to being the one next to my till. Apparently there's a key that you turn and it clicks to tell you it has been pressed.
 
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Nothing further to add other than good luck and don't forget to post updates with regards tomorrows proceedings!
 
Yosiah said:
Lol I love you. Whilst I won't go as overboard as you have suggested, you have given me some points to discuss that I hadn't thought of!
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He's a lawyer - very handy chap to have on these forums. :)

Wish I'd known 1/2 of that stuff when I had a serious disciplinary where I used to work, I'd have torn them a new one over what I was accused of!

Still, I hated the place and couldnt wait to leave, so no love lost really.

Hope your disciplinary goes well - as said before, keep calm and rational, stick to things you can prove and dont get trodden on.

From what I can see they're looking for someone to 'blame' for their loss of Police response, and right now that looks like you. It shouldnt be. It should be the fool who put the staff request button next to the panic button, or who didnt provide adequate training on till usage.
 
Read your hand book and contract to see what their disciplinary process is (make sure they do it by the book, if not you can use it against them if it comes to it). If you're not in a union it's probably too late now as they usually require several months membership before you use their service. Just explain everything truthfully and that it was busy and you pressed it by mistake. Normally gross misconduct is bad, as they can sack you for it but in this case they've got to prove you did it on purpose. If it's your word against your supervisors just deny it happened, it'll be your word against theirs - this happened to me, I got pulled into a disciplinary just to deny it was said.

MW
 
matt_fsr said:
He's a lawyer - very handy chap to have on these forums. :)
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Shhh! Now I have to do this:
Please do not take my advice as legal advice - it is provided for amusement purposes only. I do not provide any sort of warranty with it except to say that if you act on my 'amusing notes' alone then things probably will go badly for you. I do not intend for it to be used as anything, but useless reading material to suck up time. If you have a legal query please consult a qualified solicitor or legal executive at the earliest possible opportunity.
 
fini said:
Shhh! Now I have to do this:
Please do not take my advice as legal advice - it is provided for amusement purposes only. I do not provide any sort of warranty with it except to say that if you act on my 'amusing notes' alone then things probably will go badly for you. If you have a legal query please consult a qualified solicitor or legal executive at the earliest possible opportunity.
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Should you not have given the disclaimer prior to or at the point of giving advice and not some time after......

From a legal standpoint of course....:p
 
A) I didn't think someone was going to 'out' me
B) Being able to sue someone because of advice provided on a forum is unlikely at best in any case; especially where you're not actively claiming to have specific knowledge in the subject.

To further clarify, employment law is NOT my speciality - indeed I've never even taken a specific module in it.
 
Hasn't the precedent already been set by the lack of a disciplinary on the first person that did it? Surely giving you this now would be unfair treatment as they didn't have one?
 
I'm more concerned that your panic buttons can be pressed in such a way, ours are a two button unit, both of which have to pressed at the same time to activate so it'd take a complete idiot to manage to press it instead of the bell that summons more staff.
 
FabienO said:
You can take a recorder in as well. Record the whole thing.
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Only if you ask them if they agree to having the meeting recorded (which they will probably decline - I would). Clandestine recordings will not be admissable in an ET if it gets that far.

King85 said:
Hasn't the precedent already been set by the lack of a disciplinary on the first person that did it? Surely giving you this now would be unfair treatment as they didn't have one?
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Depends if they've improved the training, taken remedial action or amended thier disciplinary policy since the previous occurence.
 
I'm slightly wary that there is more than meets the eye to this, I can't see how it can look like you are doing it maliciously. I used to work in a similar supermarket with a similar setup. If I accidentally pressed the button, the last thing I would do would be to fiddle with it - you can't unpress a button after all. I would have touched nothing or perhaps press the call button I had meant to in the first place and reported the accident immediately.

Just seems that they really have it in for you for what you are reporting was an accident. Maybe you are a bit of a messer or something and they are using it to sack you.

In any case, assuming what I've said is completely wrong, if you are a member of a union such as USDAW, get a rep in to any meetings. Seek advice at the CAB, know your rights and don't do down without a fight.

Not suggesting you should do this, but for any disciplinaries when I worked at Tesco, if you kicked up a huge fuss, requested union reps, threatened legal action/employment tribunals and press involvement, you'd pretty much get away with murder.
 
Gaijin said:
I'm slightly wary that there is more than meets the eye to this, I can't see how it can look like you are doing it maliciously. I used to work in a similar supermarket with a similar setup. If I accidentally pressed the button, the last thing I would do would be to fiddle with it - you can't unpress a button after all.
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No. What I'm saying is I was worried I had pressed it, and was looking where my hand was to see if I could have; to which I thought nah I couldn't have, but obviously had done.
 
fini said:
A) I didn't think someone was going to 'out' me
B) Being able to sue someone because of advice provided on a forum is unlikely at best in any case; especially where you're not actively claiming to have specific knowledge in the subject.

To further clarify, employment law is NOT my speciality - indeed I've never even taken a specific module in it.
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Sorry, hadnt meant it as a 'take everything fini says as gospel' - more so that you'd at least be approaching matters from the correct angle and wouldnt be giving bum advice such as recording the meeting secretly.

Of course, all forum advice is just anonymous opinion mixed with a healthy dose of spam :D
 
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