Do people still find pornography exploitative?

[TheBigCheese]

Oh get over it, honestly. It's a body, not a bloody shrine.

It's not a body, it's her body, and she's describing how she feels.

I can sort of see her perspective, social norms for guys are to 'get it in there' 'score' and all the other terms which basically mean 'sticking it in there' [keeping it as family friendly as I can!] as much as possible.

Guys don't think of their wang in the same way as women do of their nether regions...I mean you are putting your appendage inside someone, it doesn't get more personal than that.

I can also understand that younger/more unexperienced women would have trouble saying no once things have started if they weren't comfortable. That's beyond the remit of the OPs question however and is something that needs to be taught more from an early age - to have control and respect of your own body.

And actually yes, the body should be a shrine, and a temple. It may be yours to do as you please with but it also is the only thing keeping you here so it needs looking after.

 

[Tombstone]

My wife likes watching it, which is all I care about

 

[Things change I've changed]

So your dad was a pimp?

In the lose sense of the word yes, he was mainly an agent though that helped get them work, he did have a few living with him though at one point and that's when things got a bit hairy, one of them turned out to be an undercover reporter doing a story on his 'operation' and once the story hit the papers he got shut down, I must say it was a very interesting learning experiance.

 

[hurfdurf]

In the lose sense of the word yes, he was mainly an agent though that that helped get them work, he did have a few living with him though at one point and that's when things got a bit hairy, one of them turned out to be an undercover reporter doing a story on his 'operation' and once the story hit the papers he got shut down, I must say it was a very interesting learning experiance.

Link to paper?

 

[Things change I've changed]

Link to paper?

It was in the front page of the Cornish Guardian about 10/12 years ago, I've tried looking for the story on their site but I don't think its on there, my local libary used to keep an archive of their papers in film form so I'd have to check, most people know my dad in this town he's a bit of an infamous character.

 

[Energize]

Today it's everywhere and though personally I have no issue with adults watching porn or consenting adults getting up to all sorts in their own house, I do have an issue with it's exposure to kids as what you see in porn is not normal and those who think it is are full of crap or bloody lucky and those who are yet to experience sex, of which I would suggest there are many on this forum, you're going to be often disappointed if you expect the girls to make the same effort of do the same things!

Well that completely depends on what you're watching, the horrible fake commercial stuff or the real "amateur" videos.

 

[Dinomania]

Oh get over it, honestly. It's a body, not a bloody shrine.

In some ways you are right, but on the other hand you're not a woman (IIRC) so I don't think you are going to be on the recieving end of the downsides of commercial porn. Her view point is fair enough, really.

It's not a body, it's her body, and she's describing how she feels.

Thanks lads.

It is just a body - yes - but I think the way it feels for a bloke to stick his wang in - and the way it feels for a girl to be, er, stuck into - are very different.

It is literally invasive - and as much as I try to distance myself from being affected by social norms - shame can sometimes be overwhelming.

One or two things would have been better off not happening to me - but thankfully the outcome wasn't bad enough for me to regret them.

Point is, at times I have felt overwhelmingly like I /should/ have allowed a boyfriend to do something to me which I really didn't want to do. Thankfully I never caved, as he never pressured - but I bet with a bit of alcohol and a boyfriend who was more likely to ask me for it - it would have happened. I would have regretted that.

The more 'normal' all the once-unusual sexual antics become, the more the pressure is on. This might be just my own slightly guilty experience, sure - but I hate the idea of lots of girls giving in because "he really wanted to" and "well, it's only a body, right?".

 

[James07]

probably.

i don't think twice about whacking on some grott and giving the snake a good beating

Trueee that brotherrrr

 

[mikeyp123]

There's porn and then there's porn.

French girls getting punched in the head while being ****ed in the ass by angry Italians would be exploitative, yes.
The 'normal' US stuff, not really as it's not like they don't know what they're getting in to.

Think i've seen this video.

 

[TheBigCheese]

"well, it's only a body, right?".

Apart from [seemingly] Lysander does anyone actually think a body is somehow disassociated from the mind living in it?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head round what's seeming to be suggested.

It's me, my body is me...it's me, or you, or whoever we are talking about, it's not just a body, there's the mind, emotions and everything else that goes with it.

People should only do exactly what they feel comfortable with and nothing more, which takes me back to a previous post where I said as long as it was safe, sane and consensual it's OK...I think SSC covers the bases pretty well.

I think with extreme porn, the genie is out of the bottle, it's out there and it can't go back in.

I do think we can change the way we respond to it though, from what I understand from nieces and nephews sex education in school is still pretty pathetic. Kids need to know the facts and be prepared for it, they also desperately need to be taught that they have their own minds and can make their own decisions, peer pressure doesn't need to be an issue if they have confidence in themselves.

 

[Devrij]

why haven't i met one yet?

Clearly you didn't hit them hard enough.

Thanks for the article hurfdurf. Gender, sexuality, and power relations happen to be my favourite subjects so was genuinely pleased to read it.

The most relevant point to this thread is that sex/sexuality are situated within a power struggle from which they can't be separated. Is porn exploitative? Yes. Anyone who's ever watched that bird shag 100 blokes can see that she was hardly empowered by the experience no matter what her intentions were. Is it also representative of what really lies within most blokes? Yes again, if you're really honest with yourself. I don't spank my gf because it makes my hand feel good, it makes me feel good because it affirms my dominant masculine role in the relationship. Porn is just a hyperbolised picture of the real feelings inside of us.

There isn't a middle ground, someone is always winning, and someone is always losing, whether it's the woman or the man holding the whip or wearing the ball-gag, someone is being aggressively dominated. How boring would sex be if it weren't this way? As the article posted on page 1 points out, removing porn from the equation doesn't change the emotions and behaviours it caters to. We're all regularly exploited, porn is just one medium.

 

[Dinomania]

Kids need to know the facts and be prepared for it, they also desperately need to be taught that they have their own minds and can make their own decisions, peer pressure doesn't need to be an issue if they have confidence in themselves.

Indeed!!!

Sadly the current state of affairs among kids appears to be a great big wodge of "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!" coupled with crippling uncertainty about the World - and all they seem to know is that SEX IS GOOD (according to the media) and that getting into it seems to make you cool.

I realise they're not all like this but sometimes I feel for the kids who are basically being told they're horrible little sods but really - what do we expect given what they are bombarded with daily..?


distraction uploaded by sarawallen, on Flickr

 

[Nexus]

I suppose attitudes have changed, but then it's because society as a whole has changed.

We see sexual imagery everywhere these days and children are exposed to it at a young age.


Is it exploitative still... yes, I would say so.
While there may be plenty of Pornstars who are doing well and love what they are doing, for every one of them you've got dozens who are being exploited.

It may be a cliched stereotype, but there are still girls who come from underprivileged backgrounds and are involved with drugs. Worse still where women, often foreign are forced into sex trafficking and hooked on drugs.

Then you've also got the simple case of most 'amateurs'... how many girls do you think have been told "Oh you are going to be a big star", then end up getting paid very little to have sex, or worse still, degrading stuff like being beaten or with old men.

There is also the huge risk to health that being a porn worker brings... again at the bottom end of the industry, you are clearly going to be at a larger risk than at the top where they have higher standards.

 

[Devrij]

The more 'normal' all the once-unusual sexual antics become, the more the pressure is on. This might be just my own slightly guilty experience, sure - but I hate the idea of lots of girls giving in because "he really wanted to" and "well, it's only a body, right?".

You make a valid point. The more men are liberated from repressive social norms, the more women are subjugated by men's desires. Again, we're in the middle of a power struggle and the women are losing. This, perhaps, is the best argument against porn, in that it breaks down barriers that may have (for a while) held some of the weight of masculine sexual aggression.

On the other hand, whether the pervasive nature of internet porn makes the next guy you meet more inclined to request anal and hence pressure you into doing something you don't want to, or whether he would've done something equally undesirable having not been exposed to porn (eg be a bit rougher with you than you might like) that was considered less deviant.... who knows?

 

[rypt]

Oh get over it, honestly. It's a body, not a bloody shrine.

That's how I see it (other than the gay stuff), but then again I'm a bloke

On the other hand, whether the pervasive nature of internet porn makes the next guy you meet more inclined to request anal and hence pressure you into doing something you don't want to

You do know that some girls/women really do enjoy it right?

 

[Things change I've changed]

Thanks lads.

It is just a body - yes - but I think the way it feels for a bloke to stick his wang in - and the way it feels for a girl to be, er, stuck into - are very different.

It is literally invasive - and as much as I try to distance myself from being affected by social norms - shame can sometimes be overwhelming.

One or two things would have been better off not happening to me - but thankfully the outcome wasn't bad enough for me to regret them.

Point is, at times I have felt overwhelmingly like I /should/ have allowed a boyfriend to do something to me which I really didn't want to do. Thankfully I never caved, as he never pressured - but I bet with a bit of alcohol and a boyfriend who was more likely to ask me for it - it would have happened. I would have regretted that.

The more 'normal' all the once-unusual sexual antics become, the more the pressure is on. This might be just my own slightly guilty experience, sure - but I hate the idea of lots of girls giving in because "he really wanted to" and "well, it's only a body, right?".

I very rarely if ever disagree with your posts Sara and I hate being on the offensive as you have given me some great advice in the past but I'd rather be honest, when I first read the above post I couldn't help feeling that is was written by a staunch feminist, not every woman feels like you do about sex, rather than coming across as if your speaking for woman as a whole perhaps you should stick to how you feel personally as this seems to be more of a personal issue/grievance tbh.

You say "The inside of my body is very much mine, and within me, and it only takes a few minutes to allow something which may be immediately regretted" , perhaps it's just me but I just can't think of any sexual act (outside of harming/beating/rape reenactment etc) that would make you feel 'shameful' about yourself or regret on any serious level, I think some people treat sex way to seriously, it's not all about 'making love', that can only last so long, a bit of 'fun' needs to be injected at some point but that's imo.

That being said you should never feel that you have to do anything you don't want to do in the bedroom regardless of how 'normal' it is perceived, basic sex is about as normal an act as you can get but that doesn't mean you should feel pressured into having to take part in the act if you don't want to does it? the same goes for fetishes/sexual requests.

Also with regards to your last paragraph you say "I hate the idea of lots of girls giving in because "he really wanted to" but you make it sound like only men are into sexual fetishes or 'adventurous' sexual acts when that is far from the truth, if your not into anything 'different' in the bedroom that's fine but plenty of women enjoy sexual/erotic fetishism and request such acts from their partner, I understand that your saying it can be worse for women but I can't help feeling your placing to much blame on men's sexual desires, if you don't want to do something speak up, otherwise you might as well blame men and the porn industry for unwanted pregnancies, it takes two to tango.


Edit -

I'm going get butchered for the above post I can feel it, I feel like I've just slapped a kitten

 

[Devrij]

That's how I see it (other than the gay stuff), but then again I'm a bloke


You do know that some girls/women really do enjoy it right?

Yes, it was just an example

That being said you should never feel that you have do anything you don't want to do in the bedroom regardless of how 'normal' it is perceived, basic sex is about as normal an act as you can get but that doesn't mean you should feel pressured into having to take part in the act if you don't want to does it? the same goes for fetishes/sexual requests.

Although I agree in principle, I think the pressure women face is something we might not understand having not experienced it.

Also with regards to your last paragraph you say "I hate the idea of lots of girls giving in because "he really wanted to" but you make it sound like only men are into sexual fetishes or 'adventurous' sexual acts when that is far from the truth, if your not into anything 'different' in the bedroom that's fine but plenty of women enjoy sexual/erotic fetishism and request such acts from their partner, I understand that your saying it can be worse for women but I can't help feeling your placing to much blame on men's sexual desires, if don't want to do something speak up, otherwise you might as well blame men and the porn industry for unwanted pregnancies, it takes two to tango.

Have you ever felt like a girl might reject you or that you would be slagged off because you said no to her request to stick a butt-plug up your ass? My guess is you'd think she was a bit odd, and that you'd rather preserve your ability to hold in a fart.

I'm trying not to take sides here, but I do feel that women's experiences are more different than we might percieve them to be.

 

[The Halk]

Yes. They do.

She's talking utter rubbish in order to court controversy. She has a book to sell.

 

[MikeHunt79]

I don't think porn is a problem for the porn actresses / actors, they were probably ****ed up before even starting out. The effect on society as a whole from having porn and sexual tv / music / adverts pushed at them every waking minute is a concern though.

I agree that some of the actresses / actors were a little screwed up before getting into porn, there are others who are far more switched on and I've met a few who own lapdancing clubs and make a good amount of money...

It's also one of the few jobs where women earn many times more than the men do, in fact many men have to do their first few jobs for free to prove they are up to the job at hand!

 

[Things change I've changed]

Yes, it was just an example



Although I agree in principle, I think the pressure women face is something we might not understand having not experienced it.



Have you ever felt like a girl might reject you or that you would be slagged off because you said no to her request to stick a butt-plug up your ass? My guess is you'd think she was a bit odd, and that you'd rather preserve your ability to hold in a fart.

I'm trying not to take sides here, but I do feel that women's experiences are more different than we might perceive them to be.

A butt plug is hardly a big deal but I get your point and I do agree to an extent but what I don't like is when we start talking about women (or men for that matter) as some kind of separate collective with a hive mind, they like us are independent people with the ability to think/feel differently to everyone else, I feel it's wrong to assume because I am a man that I know how every man feels, the same goes for women, I don't think we're giving individuality enough credit here.

Like I said not all women feel the same way as Sarah does, not all women's boundary for sexual 'exploration' is going to be the same (the same for men), and certainly not all women feel like they are being 'invaded' by the wang during consented sex, there are women that do actually enjoy the sensation believe it or not , women that don't feel that they are being 'exploited' by the wang, women that actually welcome the wang now and again, some that even demand it , we're not living in the 1950's any more.

Take anal sex for example, that has always been a controversial one, there a some women out there that will argue that other women only do it to please the man thus being unwillingly submissive due to pier pressure or fear the results of not giving their partner what they want, but actually type "Do women enjoy anal sex" into google and have a good read from many women that have very interesting contrasting opinions on this topic, you may be rather surprised, I was when one of my ex's actually asked for it, no hint from me at all, in fact to this very day I think she was waiting for me to ask so then it would have seemed like she was doing me the favour when actually she enjoyed it.

Although there is no doubt that men and women as a divided group have their own collective understanding of each other and common grounds I think on both sides of the camp men and women are becoming more independent, more people are stepping outside of the 'gender' box with more 'masculine' females and more 'feminine' men it's harder to judge a particular sex collectively these days, I think it's an inevitable part of the human evolutionary process leading us into a more androgynous future.