Foundation degree?

flibbage0 · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:14

Is there any disadvantage of doing a foundation degree instead of a normal degree, apart from the extra year?

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:16

flibbage0 said:
Is there any disadvantage of doing a foundation degree instead of a normal degree, apart from the extra year?

Yes, it's a foundation degree which is nothing like as good as a normal degree. You only do a foundation degree if you are not qualified enough to gain entry onto a normal degree programme.

stoofa · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:21

I'm currently doing a Foundation Degree at the OU (Business).
However I aim to top it up to a BA Business Studies by doing a couple more Level 2 courses once I have the Foundation Degree.

For me, having to study in my own time that is my only option.
Foundation Degree is 240pts and then you need to take that to 360pts for it to be a "Full Degree".

James J · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:30

[TW]Fox;18201804 said:
Yes, it's a foundation degree which is nothing like as good as a normal degree. You only do a foundation degree if you are not qualified enough to gain entry onto a normal degree programme.

Not exactly true that is it, considering foundation degree's are only named that way due to a pre-certificate stage being added before the degree starts, which is usually carried out at the uni itself. How is getting a first in a foundation degree 4 year course where you sit through all of the same classes as someone doing a 3 year bsc course in the same subject any different?

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:32

James J said:
Not exactly true that is it, considering foundation degree's are only named that way due to a pre-certificate stage being added before the degree starts, which is usually carried out at the uni itself. How is getting a first in a foundation degree 4 year course where you sit through all of the same classes as someone doing a 3 year bsc course in the same subject any different?

Of course its true, which part of what I said is not true? Foundation degrees are specifically offered for people who lack the qualifications to do the undergraduate degree :confused:

Otherwise they'd go straight onto the undergrad degree!

-westy- · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:33

[TW]Fox;18201804 said:
Yes, it's a foundation degree which is nothing like as good as a normal degree. You only do a foundation degree if you are not qualified enough to gain entry onto a normal degree programme.

You're thinking of a Foundation Certificate - a Foundation Degree (in my case anyway) is essentially the first two years of a degree course, requiring only 1 extra year to top up to a full degree (BSc in my case).

Edit: Yes, they are designed for people who lack the qualifications to enter an undergrad programme, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's "nowhere near as good as a full degree".

tntcoder · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:34

The only disadvantage is the time.

I did one, and it wrote off a year and I learnt nothing but after that year you are admitted onto the normal degree programme and that is the one that ultimately ends up on you degree certificate.

ran_out · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:34

I assume you are asking if there is a downside to doing a foundation degree - then a top-up year to get the full hons degree rather than just going for the hons degree course from the start?

Depends on a few things: you may be more easily able to complete the foundation degree on a part time basis if you are in full time work, tuition fee's - how the price adds up overall in comparison, take-up of the top-up year option: say for example 1 1/2 years into your course the uni finds not enough people are taking up the top-up year and then decide not to offer it again then you're left a bit screwed.

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:34

-westy- said:
You're thinking of a Foundation Certificate - a Foundation Degree (in my case anyway) is essentially the first two years of a degree course, requiring only 1 extra year to top up to a full degree (BSc in my case).

I know exactly what a foundation degree is!

I'm saying foundation degrees are for people without the qualifications to go straight onto an undergrad degree. Which bit of that isnt true? :confused:

ie there is simply no way you'd choose to do one unless you had to, which makes the question rather strange - as you dont have a choice between a normal degree and a foundation degree, if you can do a normal degree you dont even consider the foundation!

-westy- · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:37

[TW]Fox;18201976 said:
I know exactly what a foundation degree is!

I'm saying foundation degrees are for people without the qualifications to go straight onto an undergrad degree. Which bit of that isnt true?

ie there is simply no way you'd choose to do one unless you had to, which makes the question rather strange - as you dont have a choice between a normal degree and a foundation degree, if you can do a normal degree you dont even consider the foundation!

I'm not disputing that, just the statement that a Foundation Degree is "nothing like as good" as a normal degree. Its the same thing, same material, albeit a shorter course of study.

ran_out · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:37

Other things that could affect you - if the foundation degree is offered by a college through partnership with a university then you may not have as easy access to all of the university resources. (you should still have access to the same resources, but as you might be taking lectures off campus travel could become a factor)

You may find after completing a foundation degree on a part-time basis that there is no option to continue on the top-up year part-time, this could cause some problems if you are in full-time work supporting yourself, as taking a year off work/switching to part-time work isn't an option for a lot of people.

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:38

The other disadvantage is that it wont look as good on your CV.

If two people send in a CV, one with just a degree, the other with the same degree but a foundation year, it tells the employer than one of the people didnt have the ability to go straight onto a degree. This is a disadvantage - you will doubtless now cry this isnt the case but it is, just look at the number of employers who have UCAS points as acceptance criteria - people DO look at what you did before your degree.

James J · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:39

-westy- said:
I'm not disputing that, just the statement that a Foundation Degree is "nothing like as good" as a normal degree. Its the same thing, same material, albeit a shorter course of study.

Thats the bit of the post I had a problem with as well, hence my reply Fox. If you didn't mean it "that way" then fair enough though.

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:41

-westy- said:
I'm not disputing that, just the statement that a Foundation Degree is "nothing like as good" as a normal degree. Its the same thing, same material, albeit a shorter course of study.

No, it's not the same thing at all. Only if you choose to then go on and top it up to a full degree is it the same thing. A foundation degree on its own is not the same as a full degree at all.

I hate to use Wikipedia as a source but it backs up what I am saying:

The Foundation Degree is a vocational qualification introduced by the government of the United Kingdom in September 2001, which is available in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is similar in level to the associate's degree awarded in the United States, and in the United Kingdom sits on the same level as the Higher National Diploma (HND) and Certificate[1] but below the Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of Arts/Bachelor of Laws level of education. Courses are typically two years long and are offered both by universities and colleges of higher education.

Foundation degrees are intended to give a basic knowledge in a subject to enable the holder to go on to employment or further study in that field. They were designed in partnership with employers and further education colleges (FECs).

It's there to offer people who dont have the qualfiications for a proper degree a 2 year 'foundation' level course. With this they can either then have a foundation degree and go into work, or they can use it to enter final 2 years of a full degree. But the foundation degree on its own isnt a full degree nor it is as good or anything like a full degree. It simply provides access to one..

tntcoder · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:41

[TW]Fox;18202010 said:
The other disadvantage is that it wont look as good on your CV.

You don't need to put it on your CV. I didn't anyway

My degree cert says "Computer Science" and that's what I listed. Even though the course name was "Foundation in ...". So it looks like I just did a 4 year CS degree, better than no degree and better than doing alevels/etc again.

Paying attention in school and meeting the entry reqs is probably the more sensible solution.

-westy- · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:42

[TW]Fox;18202010 said:
The other disadvantage is that it wont look as good on your CV.

If two people send in a CV, one with just a degree, the other with the same degree but a foundation year, it tells the employer than one of the people didnt have the ability to go straight onto a degree. This is a disadvantage - you will doubtless now cry this isnt the case but it is, just look at the number of employers who have UCAS points as acceptance criteria - people DO look at what you did before your degree.

Oh definitely, as it shows the educational aptitude from an earlier age. Might not be the case with mature students though, as they may have had a career change and chosen to go back to study.

Either way, I'd still consider my course a degree course, as (apart from the title), I'm automatically offered the opportunity to go on to complete the full degree at Plymouth uni.

James J · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:43

[TW]Fox;18202033 said:
No, it's not the same thing at all. Only if you choose to then go on and top it up to a full degree is it the same thing. A foundation degree on its own is not the same as a full degree at all.

I hate to use Wikipedia as a source but it backs up what I am saying:

That source only mentions the actual precertificate stage of the degree though, as the rest is the bsc anyway. No full degree course is only 2 years long, especially with a foundation year added into it.

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:43

-westy- said:
Either way, I'd still consider my course a degree course, as (apart from the title), I'm automatically offered the opportunity to go on to complete the full degree at Plymouth uni.

It's not a full degree course. Only once you make the switch and begin studying on the full degree programme are on you on a 'normal' degree course.

[TW]Fox · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:45

James J said:
That source only mentions the actual precertificate stage of the degree though, as the rest is the bsc anyway. No full degree course is only 2 years long, especially with a foundation year added into it.

Thats the point - a foundation degree is 2 years long. Then you can use it to go onto a normal degree, from which you are usually exempt the first year and go straight into 2nd year..

-westy- · 11 Jan 2011 at 17:47

[TW]Fox;18202033 said:
No, it's not the same thing at all. Only if you choose to then go on and top it up to a full degree is it the same thing. A foundation degree on its own is not the same as a full degree at all.

I'm not saying it is - what I'm trying to say is that for the 2 years that you study a Foundation Degree, you essentially study degree level material - the resulting qualification isn't the same level as a degree, I'm not suggesting that at all. As you said, it just leads onto one - a fair few people would have had enough by the time 2 years is up, and can finish the course with a qualification, compared to a full degree course, where more often than not, leaving after 2 years leaves you with...well, not a lot.