Disciplinary help please

Matutu

Matutu

Matutu

Associate
Joined
21 Aug 2008
Posts
956
Hey Guys,

My father is a director a small company 5-10 people. They do mechanical installations and have 2 teams of 2 men on the books.

The directors now wish to move these teams to self employed with 3 members all very keen on the idea, however the new "trainee" is very young and only been on for 10months, went nuts at this prospect. Phoned him(father who is the director) up called him all sorts then left for the day at 11:30 and no one can get hold of him etc etc. He is out of his probation since he is over his 6months trial period.

From the sounds of it he will not also be turning up for work tomorrow, now the company is a small close company and has never encountered this, where do they stand?

Do they have to write a first disciplinary warning letter and give a period for him to reply? Or can they make him redundant straight away?

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Pretty certain it will fall under gross misconduct and they can fire him straight away, but best to check with ACAS :)
 
Hold on, hold on, you're making substantial changes to his T&Cs of employment ie "firing" him and then taking him back on as a contractor?

I would be very careful how you play this!

Edit: Call a lawyer!
 
oh no no we are not wanting to fire him, they were discussing the options with the labour. No decisions have been made at all, it was just a general discussion but he went nuts :S
 
Jokester said:
Hold on, hold on, you're making substantial changes to his T&Cs of employment ie "firing" him and then taking him back on as a contractor?

I would be very careful how you play this!

Edit: Call a lawyer!
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This.

I know when we have let people go before there are so many rules to it its silly!
 
It certainly sounds like gross misconduct. The proper way to deal with this is when he returns to work, you call him into the office and suspend him (with/without pay depending on your disciplinary procedure) pending a full investigation and disciplinary.

If he has been found to be guilty of gross misconduct, and insubordination and walking off the job is grounds for it then you can sack him immediately.

However you need to be careful with changing his terms and conditions like you have, he could have claim for constructive dismissal, but as he has worked for you less than a year his options and recourse to a tribunal are extremely limited.
 
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Matutu said:
oh no no we are not wanting to fire him, they were discussing the options with the labour. No decisions have been made at all, it was just a general discussion but he went nuts :S
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Of course he went nuts, they effectively told the poor guy they were looking at making him redundant! He probably didnt handle it well but as a young lad suddenly watching his job fall apart around him he wasn't exactly going to invite your Dad round for some tea and crumpets was he?
 
Jokester said:
Hold on, hold on, you're making substantial changes to his T&Cs of employment ie "firing" him and then taking him back on as a contractor?

I would be very careful how you play this!

Edit: Call a lawyer!
Click to expand...

No nothing has been decided or anything like that. It was only discussed with the labour if it would be something they would prefer to do as 2 of them have been keen for a while to do that. So it was just a general open discussions to find peoples feelings on it and if its something that could work. However he did not take the thought at all well and as I said walked out, phoned a director and swore etc etc and has not been heard of since.
 
[TW]Fox;18202531 said:
Of course he went nuts, they effectively told the poor guy they were looking at making him redundant! He probably didnt handle it well but as a young lad suddenly watching his job fall apart around him he wasn't exactly going to invite your Dad round for some tea and crumpets was he?
Click to expand...

no, but walking out and then phoning the boss to shout abuse at him isn't the best way of dealing with it either! Would you want to keep someone like that in employment?
 
AHarvey said:
no, but walking out and then phoning the boss to shout abuse at him isn't the best way of dealing with it either! Would you want to keep someone like that in employment?
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Would you want to remain in 'employment' with a company who thinks it's a great wheeze and a tax dodge to fire everyone and then hire them back again as self employed contactors thus avoiding sick pay, holiday pay, NI contributions...
 
[TW]Fox;18202684 said:
Would you want to remain in 'employment' with a company who thinks it's a great wheeze and a tax dodge to fire everyone and then hire them back again as self employed contactors thus avoiding sick pay, holiday pay, NI contributions...
Click to expand...

That is not the point though is it. The chap's reaction to a discussion on the future of the company doesn't warrant such behaviour.

Walking off the job, insubordination and the use of profanity toward a director of the company are all grounds for dismissal under gross misconduct. As he has worked there less than one year he has very limited grounds for appeal if they choose to dismiss him.
 
Matutu said:
From the sounds of it he will not also be turning up for work tomorrow, now the company is a small close company and has never encountered this, where do they stand?

Do they have to write a first disciplinary warning letter and give a period for him to reply? Or can they make him redundant straight away?
Click to expand...



With the greatest of respect, I would have thought that the directors would have sufficient knowledge to at least get started on this matter. http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

As advised get a solicitor. :)
 
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