Disciplinary help please

Without knowing the full facts it is impossible for any of us to offer any advice, did the Company use any procedure for submitting this proposal or just call people in and tell them it was happening? Could it be a complete misunderstanding somewhere? Does the employee think he's been dismissed?

Did the Company do things properly is what I'm getting at, people are very, very sensitive around their employment in today's climate, he's a young lad and may have just taken on big financial commitments so any possible loss or even change of employment could affect him very harshly.

Legal proceedings could become very costly, it may be beneficial to sort things out amicably without involving anyone else as usually things like this are misunderstandings through poor communication and can be resolved easily with a little thought.
 
[TW]Fox;18202684 said:
Would you want to remain in 'employment' with a company who thinks it's a great wheeze and a tax dodge to fire everyone and then hire them back again as self employed contactors thus avoiding sick pay, holiday pay, NI contributions...
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A job is a job at the end of the day. I know a lot of companies that have done this, normally smaller ones like hairdressers and people just get on with it. They don't over react like a complete knob.

doofer said:
did the Company use any procedure for submitting this proposal or just call people in and tell them it was happening? Could it be a complete misunderstanding somewhere? Does the employee think he's been dismissed?
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From my understanding nothing has been confirmed as happening, it was simple a discussion with the employees along the lines of "what do you think?"
 
AHarvey said:
A job is a job at the end of the day. I know a lot of companies that have done this, normally smaller ones like hairdressers and people just get on with it.
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More fool them. There is a world of difference between being self employed and a salaried employee. For many things being self employed is better but I doubt it is in this instance - you wont be running things your way, will you! It sounds like all the downsides of self employment (No job security, no paid holiday, no sick leave, no employment rights) without the benefits!
 
[TW]Fox;18203147 said:
More fool them. There is a world of difference between being self employed and a salaried employee. For many things being self employed is better but I doubt it is in this instance - you wont be running things your way, will you! It sounds like all the downsides of self employment (No job security, no paid holiday, no sick leave, no employment rights) without the benefits!
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How can you be so sure? We have no idea if they have offered them more money.

Either way the reaction of the worker is wrong, doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

Doesn't sound like he's coming back to me anyway.
 
sigma said:
How can you be so sure?
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About the differences between a salaried employee and a self employed contractor?

Errr it's not exacly a secret. Contractors are usually paid SIGNIFICANTLY more in recognition of the additional risk and reduced level of rights. This company will probably increase pay to some degree but not by enough that it counters the cost savings of moving to this sort of way of working..
 
[TW]Fox;18203359 said:
About the differences between a salaried employee and a self employed contractor?
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No. Not the differences, just that in this instance you think they'll have no benefits. Who's to know? It's likely that they might be worse off, but this is the whole idea behind discussing it with the workforce to see what they want and seeing what is best for all concerned, I doubt the company wants all people walking off in a huff...
 
I wasn't saying 'It's totally acceptable' to do that', I was offernig an insight into why a young lad might do that when faced with losing his job due the companies latest money saving effort.
 
sigma said:
No. Not the differences, just that in this instance you think they'll have no benefits. Who's to know? It's likely that they might be worse off, but this is the whole idea behind discussing it with the workforce to see what they want and seeing what is best for all concerned, I doubt the company wants all people walking off in a huff...
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Chances are the company is just thinking "No employers NIC! CASHBACK!"
 
I've yet to see a company make its existing employees 'self employed' as a direct result of having the benefits of those employees interests at heart. No wonder the lad blew his top. I would have too.
My own personal experience says that if the company you work for thinks firing all its employees then rehiring them as 'contractors' is a good idea to even consider, then they're not much of a company to begin with.
At least the OP's dad knows the feelings of one member of staff, clearly and categorically. :p

Contracting is very much like temping; depending on how you play it you can make more money, but at the expense of being let go at the drop of a hat, amongst other distinct disadvantages.
 
we don't really know what was said in either conversation, the first one probably had witnesses, the second maybe not.

Either way written warning at best, the lad probably trusted the director who had promised him the earth (may be)
 
Sorry but I think the lad has managed to talk his way out of a job. I understand that he was not interested in going self employed but to walk out, call a director and give him verbal abuse is not on.
 
walking out, and leaving the job is called Job Abandonment, and he basically sacks himself. But there other factors involved here.

This happened to me with one of my staff, but because i told him to F off then when he threatened to walk out ( heated argument and he didnt want to do the duties i asked ) he didnt get sacked.
 
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