Education & faith

[muon]

http://www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin...r=10&Phase=1&Begin=2&No=8894800&Num=889&s2s=1

Pretty decent results.

However, there is a difference in different types of "faith schools". A lot are for example CofE schools but aren't any different from a normal state school. I think there should be a threshold somewhere, so that you have to run as an independent if you wish to exist as a school.

0% achieve the English Bac though. Lacking in a modern foreign language perhaps.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

Who said anything about segregating communities? The school in question is to be open to all.

Or do you think the Catholic and CofE schools that we've had for decades have "segregated communities"?

I would think christian and muslim schools haven't done much good in terms of integrating communities of different faiths in many northern towns. The riots of recent years would suggest there's some problems with segregation in those towns, and faith schools certainly play a part in that
imo.

 

[Vonhelmet]

0% achieve the English Bac though. Lacking in a modern foreign language perhaps.

Interesting, though apparently less than 1 in 6 pupils achieved it nationwide in 2010 which is pretty shocking.

Though obviously 0% is lower than 1 in 6, I'll give you that.

 

[apeZ]

Generally speaking, faith schools are very good to work and study at, as vonhelmet pointed out.

I have no issue with them as long as they deliver the curriculum in an appropriate way, although I know many faith schools choose not to follow the locally agreed syllabus for RE in favour of their own teachings. This is one area that I'm not too sure about but I think it's up to the parents to decide whether the school is suitable for their child or not.

We had prayer and hymns at my primary school. It wasn't religiously affiliated, that was just part of the day. If anything, it has given me a good education and more open look at the world, not any of this 'brainwashing' as people are quick to assume.

 

[muon]

Interesting, though apparently less than 1 in 6 pupils achieved it nationwide in 2010 which is pretty shocking.

Though obviously 0% is lower than 1 in 6, I'll give you that.

Yeh but 98% 5 A*-Cs. I don't think the 0% figure is indicative of a bad school, but simply of a curriculum which is slightly off. Students still are doing well at Maths and Science and I assume they still teach English .

 

[DB_SamX]

Whilst I didn't go to a faith primary school at such; I loved learning about other religions at school to get an appreciation of them.

 

[The Halk]

Personally I believe that no religion should be forced down childrens necks when they are young.

That includes dictionary correct atheism. Believing there is no god or higher being is a position of faith.

Kids should be treated as agnostics and not told any religion is true - or false - and should be left to come to their own conclusions.

I personally suspect there is no god or higher being, and until I am presented with some kind of proof I'm going to live my life accordingly.

Separating children when they are 4 and a half is not right.

There is no reason at all for Faith schools to exist other than shoving religion down childrens throats when they are so young they are emotionally programmed to accept what the tribe tells them is the truth. Catholic or Muslim or CoE schools are not there for the benefit of the children alone, it's all about the religion. Would you trust McDonalds or Coca-Cola to teach your kids what a healthy diet was?

 

[muon]

These schools are only shoving down what parents want. How can the state interfere? Unless you actually want a clear stance of there being a separation of religion from state at a much wider level. My guess would be that it would be unpopular in this country.

Would you trust McDonalds or Coca-Cola to teach your kids what a healthy diet was?

You really going to stop a McDonalds funded academy school? (Not that they are in the business of being so altruistic)

 

[Andy]

Why is a religion even associated with a school?

edit The Hawk, you read my mind!

 

[muon]

Why is a religion even associated with a publicly funded school?

Why not. Religion in state affairs isn't against the law or anything.

Think about this school. It is a school with majority Muslim students and teachers offering subjects which Muslims might want. Fundamentally they aren't doing anything wrong.

Islamic Studies for example is an actual GCSE. I assume the school also gives provision for prayer at the relevant times, but as long as they have the mandatory length of actual academic studies per day (if this exists), why is that wrong?

 

[ChroniC]

Because enforcing faithless (or more accurately for what many want, atheist) schools on the populous is as bad, hypocritical and authoritarian as enforcing Christianity or Islam on all schools?

Stupidest comment I think I've ever witnessed on these boards, and I've been a member for 11yrs.
Religions place in school should only consist of teaching the aspects in an RE class. With a multicultural society, segregation or isolation into different faiths during a childs life when they create social bonds with others, is detrimental to that societies chance for "getting along" or understanding of each other in the future.
Why consider any form of faith or no faith anything other than a subject for learning like history, or math during a set period of the curriculum.
Faith is not required to learn football, faith is not required to learn the circumference of a circle, faith has no place in learning anything other than the specific religion in a specific religious class
Creating a school where religion does not exist, allows the children to not feel different, allows them to mix, and allows them to learn unimpeded.
Create a school where children are categorised and typecast, then you have achieved nothing, in fact your one step away from categorising them via colour.

 

[The Halk]

These schools are only shoving down what parents want. How can the state interfere? Unless you actually want a clear stance of there being a separation of religion from state at a much wider level. My guess would be that it would be unpopular in this country.

You really going to stop a McDonalds funded academy school? (Not that they are in the business of being so altruistic)

There are certain things that parents are obliged to do - one of those is a decent education. There's lots of things they can't do, they can't harm or abuse the kids.

I think it would be a very divisive thing, Many would welcome it, many wouldn't care and many would feel threatened by it.

Would I stop a McDonalds funded academy school? Would you send your kids there? And I don't mean 20 years down the line if they have a sterling reputation. I mean in the first year of admittance, would you send your kids to a school run entirely by McDonalds?

 

[DB_SamX]

Why is a religion even associated with a school?

edit The Hawk, you read my mind!

Why not? Whether you personally agree with religion or not, religion is a part of life and the world, so no reason not to teach it, and let children learn and decide for themselves under the guidance from teachers and their parents.

 

[steve-h]

Why is a religion even associated with a school

this... let alone a public one.

 

[muon]

There are certain things that parents are obliged to do - one of those is a decent education. There's lots of things they can't do, they can't harm or abuse the kids.

So you want to ban religious teaching full stop? Stop parents abusing their children?

I think it would be a very divisive thing, Many would welcome it, many wouldn't care and many would feel threatened by it.

Well how about you get an MP to propose the Bill.

Would I stop a McDonalds funded academy school? Would you send your kids there? And I don't mean 20 years down the line if they have a sterling reputation. I mean in the first year of admittance, would you send your kids to a school run entirely by McDonalds?

There's clearly demand for this Islamic school. If there was for a McDonalds school, who are you to interfere. Of course as long as the national curriculum is covered.

 

[Glaucus]

How you going to stop parents indoctrinating kids? And I'm not just talk religion /atheist. Parent indoctrinate everything from morale to personality. These arguments in purpose, indoctrination and all the usual arguments are stupid.

There function is to provide education and allow religious practice/education, re does not reach anything usefull.

 

[The Halk]

Why not? Whether you personally agree with religion or not, religion is a part of life and the world, so no reason not to teach it, and let children learn and decide for themselves under the guidance from teachers and their parents.

If the same people who are telling them how to add up, how to write, what swims and what an egg is... if they are also telling the children unproven facts like faries live in the bottom of your garden, or someone came back to life or ghosts are real... do you not think that is irresponsible and abusing children in their infacy in order to spread a faith?

It's perfectly fine to explain to them what the word believe means, and what having a faith is, and then explain to them that their parents have a faith and the teacher does too, and lots of the kids at the school do etc.

But it is absolutely child abuse to set up an institution where the sole purpose is to lie to children and pass off faith as fact.

 

[muon]

If the same people who are telling them how to add up, how to write, what swims and what an egg is... if they are also telling the children unproven facts like faries live in the bottom of your garden, or someone came back to life or ghosts are real... do you not think that is irresponsible and abusing children in their infacy in order to spread a faith?

It's perfectly fine to explain to them what the word believe means, and what having a faith is, and then explain to them that their parents have a faith and the teacher does too, and lots of the kids at the school do etc.

But it is absolutely child abuse to set up an institution where the sole purpose is to lie to children and pass off faith as fact.

Well, I doubt publicly funded schools are allowed to do this in official national curriculum teaching. You want to start controlling extra-curricular activities in schools? Start banning Christian Union activities, or Islamic societies?

 

[The Halk]

How you going to stop parents indoctrinating kids? And I'm not just talk religion /atheist. Parent indoctrinate everything from morale to personality. These arguments in purpose, indoctrination and all the usual arguments are stupid.

There function is to provide education and allow religious practice/education, re does not reach anything usefull.

You're not going to stop parents indoctrinating kids, nor do I think the state has any business or ability to do so.

However it's a very different thing at school.

The curriculum should include that faiths are faiths and not facts, and that the existence of a higher being cannot be proved or disproved. That some people take a collection of the information available as compelling enough to believe one way or the other, but that absolute proof does not exist.

 

[The Halk]

Well, I doubt publicly funded schools are allowed to do this in official national curriculum teaching. You want to start controlling extra-curricular activities in schools? Start banning Christian Union activities, or Islamic societies?

No, I don't.