Is a return to the "dark ages" possible?
- Thread starter Fiocca
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2003
- Posts
- 6,135
- Location
- Birmingham
The Dark Ages is just a propaganda name given by historians who in the past understood very little and idolised so called civilised Romano Britain and the classical period that came before it. The Angles, Jutes, Saxons and Indigenous Britains (If there has ever been such a thing) valued different things to their classical counter parts and saw the world in a different way. If the period was so dark why were many of the foundations for a legal system that lead directly to the high medieval and onto the modern age laid down, why was so much supurb art created and how come the land was utilised as, if not more, efficently for farming than it had under Roman rule. Most good historians now refer to the period as the early medieval.
Perceived by who, other than poor historians with a pro classical agenda.
Last edited:
Took the words out of my mouth.
+1
History is starting to turn a lot of older outlooks on its head.
Got a genuine giggle! Seriously though, anyone know the name of it?
The series was called What If?
Seriously look up the Polymaths of the Arabic world around that time, or the Indian ones.
Most of the advances in mathematics and science during the later renaissance periods were actually re-workings and translations of medieval scholars.
I know you have watched a documentary, but this period in history has been my passion for 30 years.
There are a lot of old fallacious material out there and it can be difficult to sift through the dross.
Hmm after further reading i'm starting to agree with your points about the term dark ages. Maybe i used it in the context that i was taught and not how the period is now described.
Still, what about your opinions on the effect lack of oil could bring to our civilisation?
Still, what about your opinions on the effect lack of oil could bring to our civilisation?
It is difficult to say, as there are alternatives to oil available. Would it drastically alter the way in which we generate energy and live our lives? I would say, of course.
However a move away from fossil fuels doesn't have to mean a decline in living conditions long term, it means a fundamental change in how we both perceive what is important and what we need, at least until other energy sources can be retooled and implemented.
I would expect that after a century or two of interregnum we would actually come out of it better off, especially as it would mena the end of the Oil economic structure that Globally brings so much strife to the world.
Going back to the 'Dark Ages', if you want to see what kind of accomplishments happened during this period, next time you are near one of the Great Cathedrals, (I see you're a Swindonian, so Salisbury is a good example) go inside a look, and I mean really look, at how it was built and what knowledge and artisan-ship was needed to build a structure that has lasted for almost a thousand years. No backward society could have constructed such architectural marvels, especially as they invented the tools, mathematics and architecture as they went along. The Magna Carta is also in Salisbury Cathedral and that is the basis of our legal system, again from the 'Dark Ages'
Last edited:
I agree, which leads to the conclusion that if current civilisation does fall it will be far worse than any previous dark age (there have been different ones at different times in different places). Civilisation is much more fragile nowadays. It would also be far harder to recover because we no longer have easily accessible resources and our civilisation is based on far more complex products. For example, after the dark age following the collapse of the first bronze age civilisations it was still possible to easily get the resources to make bronze and to make bronze items. If we go down, after the following dark age it would not be possible to easily get the resources needed to make cars, computers, etc.
Thats what i think. It is so ingrained into not only our society but the whole worlds civilisation that it would affect us all drastically. Basic skills of farming land and using manual skills has been lost or are only known to a few compared to the many over the last few centuries and i think it would take a few more centuries for us to start to recover.
We rely on our current oil usage to produce and reasearch new technologies and as we havent really gotten to the point where we could live with a feasable alternative comfortably i think it would take a long time to rebuild.
Survivors? I didn't watch all of it. The overweight scottish woman running off every 5 minutes shouting "PEEEETAAA!!! WHURZ MOY SUUN?!" wore thin after a few episodes.
That was a remake of the 1970's series about a 'flu virus that kills pretty much everyone....
Hence 'Survivors'
It's not just for combustion / propulsion and fuel, it's also vitally important as a metal friendly lubricant.
Even if we obtain energy sources beyond oil we could have problems with an ever increasing demand for machinery lubricant especially considering the emerging next big economies.
I'm not keen on trying to see if vegtable oil could keep this damand fulfilled.
(this is obviously a longer term supposition, as I know there is a decline down from peak)
Even if we obtain energy sources beyond oil we could have problems with an ever increasing demand for machinery lubricant especially considering the emerging next big economies.
I'm not keen on trying to see if vegtable oil could keep this damand fulfilled.
(this is obviously a longer term supposition, as I know there is a decline down from peak)
There are already hugely viable alternatives to oil. Nuclear for example.
If it came to it, we arent just going to plunge our civilizations in to darkness because of some eco-mentalist who doesnt like nuclear power.
We will adapt.
Who knows, by the time oil starts to run out there may be an even more exciting way of producing energy that is developed.
If it came to it, we arent just going to plunge our civilizations in to darkness because of some eco-mentalist who doesnt like nuclear power.
We will adapt.
Who knows, by the time oil starts to run out there may be an even more exciting way of producing energy that is developed.
Like I already said I didn't pay much attention to it and lost interest quickly...
Survivors can mean many things, including following a group of survivors after the UK runs out of oil, gas etc and loses all power.
Not to mention all the derivatives of Oil which people never think of, like Plastics, Rubber, Solvents, and so on.
There are alternatives, but cheap access to oil is the basis of our global economy and without it we would see global unrest and societal collapse. (if we assume a rapid loss, rather than the more realistic gradual move away from oil products beginning with the more viable and economic alternatives)
However, as the interregnum subsides (due to population decline and the isolation of communities) I expect we would see a new and hopefully more responsible civilisation rise up.
really ? id argue that most of us do , or atleast know someone who does
all it takes is a few people to know and spread the word.
What alternatives?
I really do suspect it would descend into war personally in this scenario, 'end game' style thinking at least, not necessarily mass killings or military confrontations however.
If any state still has a calculated amount of oil product reserve and military power left, and you know you can still dominate the declining world perhaps in the same manner you did in growth, you could see an emergance on a potential world unification under one sovereign banner. Or certainly true Orwellian bloc powers if not. Imagine it being America or Russia by default at present.
Why would they do that? Well, I'd hazard a guess at humanity not really learning any lessons, and probably blaming each other by this point for the collective failure to progress.
If you can get increadibly more technologically advanced than any rivals before this potential long term major setback, it gives you time to let the rot set everywhere in order to make your sunset interjections easier.
Sit back, recover. Watch the sun rise on a glorious new empire that was snatched in possibly the easiest way possible.
Of course, this all has a set back. Nuclear armament.
I'm not sure if MAD would scale back with the decline, in terms of principle and quantity, so until I can figure that out with certainty my world domination plans have to stay in my shirt pocket.
Could obviously go good or bad.
Perhaps I was too taken with mad max as a kid, but I can't help but feel in times of true crisis you tend to see more of the underside of human nature than the better side.
Last edited:
Oil wise, we have Bio fuels, Synthetic Oils, Vegetable and Animal oils. Energy wise there a myriad source that I am sure you don't need me to list.
Mineral oils are simply cheaper and easier to extract in large quantities, as that declines other sources become more viable.
I don't forsee the same rapid fall into anarchism that you do at least not over the long term or on a Mad Max scale (however cool that would be, especially with my skillset).