Company Car Question

UPDATE -
Car Allowances are on the way out and a Company Car option for ALL employees is on the way in.

As promised to Housey I have made good my pledge to make a few calls to old contacts trying to establish the precise corporate thinking on CC’s versus CA’s today. It took me a bit longer than expected as I had to chase a couple around (making two new contacts on the way as it turns out). Also as a result of what I learnt I have also done a fair bit of googling. I am now confident that I am right up-to-speed.

1. It seems I was indeed a little out-of-date. There are very few organisations now not offering CA’s as well as CC’s. I was wrong about the prevalence of CA’s today.

2. It seems most of the peeps on this thread were also a bit out-of-date because the pendulum is already in full swing in the reverse direction. The desire of most larger corporates is now to get as many employees as possible into Company Cars. I avoid the phrase, “back into company Cars” because it seems that this intent is not merely to get those who currently enjoy CA’s back into company cars but quite literally to get as many employees as possible full stop into Company Cars. That shocked me when it was first put to me but slowly the rationale become clear.

3. The objective of this CA>CC move is to reduce Employers NIC’s and improve VAT recovery. Move back from existing CA to CC’s and at the same time convince other employees too to give up part of their salaries in return for a car and a very significant percentage of Employers NIC’s liabilities evaporate. Hence the motivation not just to get current CA recipients back into CC’s but also as many other staff as possible into CC’s.

4. The mechanism for delivering this transition is known as a Salary Sacrifice Scheme. Some peeps may be familiar with such schemes but they were never once mentioned in this thread so they may be news to some. Equally several peeps suggested that it was in an empolyers interests to move to CA’s. The reverse is true and now being slowly recognised.

5. Salary Sacrifice Schemes must be contractual (i.e. in the form of a newly agreed CoE). Over the last 8 to 24 months all of the major leasing companies, LeasePlan, Tusker, Lex, Alphabet, Zurich P, etc., have been falling over themselves to launch their own Salary Sacrifice offerings and are ramping up active promotion of them.

6. Employees benefit from savings on their personal NIC’s. Although they are still liable for income tax as regards the Car/BIK just as in the current manner for CC’s; using the same tables and variables re vehicle price, emissions, mileage. Effectively by Salary Sacrifice one is purchasing trouble free motoring at discount rates due to the economies of scale (i.e. Fleet discounts, etc).

7. The Employer loses nothing versus current CA arrangements because all the advantages that the move to CA’s provided are maintained. Typically the leasing company that operates the scheme handles almost everything, the supply, management, maintenance, etc., plus the vehicle is still registered direct with the employee just as if they took out a private lease using a CA.

8. The advantages and corporate will for this was demonstrated by the 2010 Employee Benefits Awards/ Business and Perk Car Drivers Category. These awards were judged by HR and Employee Benefits Directors or Specialists from First Group, Ladbrokes, Asda, Quintiles, Skype, Prudential, Cable & Wireless, Centrica and others. CSC, the computing services giant, was awarded Runner-Up in this category. The award citation read; “CSC reviewed its company car policy in 2009. Its main aims were to increase choice for staff, to encourage management take-up of company cars over cash allowances, and incentivise low CO2-emitting cars. The resulting scheme, offered via flex, has reduced operating costs and lowered average CO2 emissions.” (The flex referred to is Lex Autolease Flex.)

9. The premier Audit and Business Consultancy, Deloitte, has set such a scheme up for its own staff and is actively recommending it to their clients. Hardly surprising given the operating cost reductions deriving from NIC reductions and VAT recovery.

10. Leading law firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer has also set up a scheme for its employees.

11. It appears that most organisations will be using an engineered carrot rather than a stick approach to phase out CA’s in respect of those employees who currently receive them. The strategy seems to be to provide employees with an increasingly wide choice of low emission vehicles but also to increasingly enforce that policy. Low emission vehicles enhance of course the organisation’s Eco credentials and therefore that provides a defensible rationale for the trend. These vehicles will be identical to those available through the Salary Sacrifice Scheme but obviously, as a result of Fleet discounts, etc., the cost will be lower to the employee through the SSS than that employee could ever have obtain going it alone. Voila, voluntary conversion to SSS Company Cars as it’s the only sensible move. A typical Staff Attitude Modification Strategy pure and simple. The result – Very significant NIC savings for the Employer and enhanced VAT recovery. Plus SSS’s lose none of the other Employer advantages that resulted from the earlier move to CA’s from traditional CC’s.

12. Lock-in? Those who have read this thread in full will know that I have always held the position that funding a private vehicle lease via a CA restricts employment mobility. I held/hold that employees might be reticent to move to a company providing only a CC after having just taken out and committed themselves to a private three year lease funded by their current CA. So does an SSS funded vehicle have the same potential for lock in?

13. Certainly it would lock-in staff who would normally never receive either a CC or CA were they to move to another company. So for lower grades a degree of lock-in exists and aides the employer in both recruitment and retention.

14. As regards grades that would almost invariably receive a CC or CA wherever they moved, in the vast majority of cases, No, there is no lock-in potential. Most organisations operating SSS’s are also taking out early termination insurance. So if an employee leaves neither the employer nor the employee has to pay the early termination penalties. The employee leaves, hands back the car, end of story, just as with traditional CC’s. However, such is not universal and some companies are not purchasing indemnity, leaving early termination penalties to be paid entirely by the employee.

15. As for the Government/HMRC it seems that the possibility of company cars being opted for by even lower paid workers is anticipated. The only limitations to eligibility are that the remaining gross salary paid to the employee must not be so low as to be below the minimum wage. In other words the minimum wage is considered to pertain to gross salary after provision of a car rather than the notional salary which would include gross salary plus the BIK value of that car.


Boy, oh boy, the last day or two have been a re-education for me. In many ways, contrary to the days of the Company Car drawing to a close it seems likely that we are in reality heading for the Age of the Company Car in potentially far greater numbers than ever before.

For those peeps who are abreast of these trends, I hope you do not feel I am teaching you to suck eggs. In posting this such was not my intent. I post it mainly for those who were/are not abreast of the trend in the hope that it will be of interest or value to them.

The following links may help those with an interest to fill in any gaps. Or for doubters to establish that this is indeed the current trend.

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2010/08/16/55769/company-car-tax-and-salary-sacrifice-understanding-the.html

http://www.lexautolease.co.uk/content/products/salarysacrifice.aspx

https://www.tuskerdirect.com/

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/feature/company-car-salary-sacrifice-providers/38287/
 
I remain of the opinion that you are consuming vast quantities of recreational pharmaceuticals that are clearly proving detrimental to your mental wellbeing!
 
I have worked in the automotive industry for 6 years now. I have worked (and still do) in a sector that deals heavily with leasing companies - in fact, we are key suppliers of critical business-decision making information. As a result, I see a lot of information from leasing companies, and have a number of personal friends that work for leasing companies.

Leasing companies, since the day I started working in the industry 6 years ago, have been saying that leasing is on the up and it's all great and x tax advantage blah blah. What a surprise that the industry is singing it's own praises! I wouldn't trust the leasing industry as far as I could throw it.
 
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Well, all i can say is from my own personal experience is that my wife who works for Lloyds TSB has been informed that they are taking CC's off everyone and replacing them with CA. It was the choice of the individual previously as to which they would take.

So in this case it seems Car allowance is on the up.
 
Well, all i can say is from my own personal experience is that my wife who works for Lloyds TSB has been informed that they are taking CC of everyone and replacing it with CA. It was a choice of the person previously as to which they would take.

So in this case it seems Car allowance is on the up.

Well they certainly wont be dressed for stardom.
 
@ DRZ

Nope mate just too much time on my hands these days. But when I hold a position I feel to be robust I speak my mind in full. :)

@ PMKeates

Sorry mate but are you saying CSC are in cahoots with the leasing companies and that wehy they tried to get all their managers back into CC's and away from CA. We'll I never. Thanks for the info. :rolleyes:

@ Mr^B

Clearly you didn't read the last to lines matey. I must have mistaken you for someone who pays attention to detail. There I go wrong again. :p

@ Fox

Nice one Fox the best reply of the lot. Stiletto humour and sarcasm. It works for me. I'd have you at a Board table before most of them and that's for sure.
 
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VFM

Are you smoking crack?
Of course Fleet management companies will tell you that CC is on the up.

And the deal with Salary sacrifice, is that it has the potential to grow lease companies TAM from CC qualifying personnel only to potentially all employees in a company on the basis its a perk the Company can offer their staff to make them "feel good" in times when pay rises are hard to come by, with all the admin taken care of by the fleet management. There may be some tax efficiency, but believe me thats not where the drive is coming from, it is car suppliers trying to keep momentum and turnover in their business

You would be better speaking to financial consultants and tax specialists, if you are really trying to find out which offers the better return for the EMPLOYEE rather than the lease co. or the Employer
 
Surely financial consultants and tax specialists would be overly concerned with the "maths of the moment" rather than giving a view which includes evaluation of Career Smarts :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
@ MatthewNCB

I refer you to points 8, 9, 10. Compare your position to the reality.

@ PeterNem

Nothing wrong with a low emission BMW, Merc or Audi is there? Or did you think Career Smarts dictated a Gallardo? ;):D

@ Fox

Don't think its the leasing companies doing it. One contact I spoke with has nothing to do with that business. Leasing companies may have good closers but any pitch has to have a sound financial base to some degree. The move back to CC's just makes good sense. That's why CSC went for it and why HR & Employee Benefits Directors said, "Hey that's smart", and gave then the award. As far as I know there was not one Leasing Professional on the Judging Panel but I'll check if you want?
 
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@ MatthewNCB

I refer you to points 8, 9, 10. Compare your position to the reality.

@ PeterNem

Nothing wrong with a low emission BMW, Merc or Audi is there? Or did you think Career Smarts dictated a Gallardo? ;):D

Point 9 specifically but to a degree 8 and 10 confirms that the benefit is to the Employer which is why Deloitte will be recommending this to their corporate customers (vat recovery and operating cost are not generally employee considerations)
 
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You would be better speaking to financial consultants and tax specialists, if you are really trying to find out which offers the better return for the EMPLOYEE rather than the lease co. or the Employer

Had to deal with this part of your post separately. I agree with you but only in part.

The staff at Deloitte who should know what's best for themselves are buying into it. Can't recall whether the figure was just over £1,000 saving p.a. for the employee or just over £2,000, I think it was the latter.

Besides pretty much whether you get offered a SSS, CC or CA is not really your choice as an employee. You can only look at what's available and pick from those options.

If a company can significantly reduce its operating costs by going a particular route it will. The key is to carry your staff with you by modifying their attitudes rather than using the big stick.

If you look at point 11 in my post the way that this will be achieved is discussed.

Everyone keeps bashing on about this being leasing company driven. What a load of tosh. The drive will be from employers because it reduces operating costs plain and simple.
 
[TW]Fox;18432438 said:
There is everything wrong with them when you can afford to buy something better.

I don't dispute that, Fox. But the impetus seems to be - Don't expect your employer to be any part of you carbon boot print. Of course they'll claim its to increase their eco credentials but that's only in part true. It's because they know darn well this approach saves them money now and that big taxes on a company's carbon foot print are just around the corner.
 
[TW]Fox;18432551 said:
Which has what to do with turning up to interviews in your own Mercedes versus a company one?

Do we really need to go through that again? :rolleyes:

Your own Mercedes funded by private lease you've just taken out and are committed to using your CA probably means you won't even have gone to the interview with a company that only gives CC's even if in all other respects it would be a wise employment move.

I'm quite happy to see this move to SSS's because as I stated earlier, SSS's in the main have no lock-in because employers typically take out early termination indemnity so you're free to move when you want.

The only real lock-in or solid retention advantage is where an individual would normally not qualify for a car doing the same kind of job elsewhere. They'll stay for this perk. That one of the other very big plusses of SSS's for employers. Staff turnover in low grades can be reduced. Frequently they are the kind of job where it takes a while and cost to train someone to do a job rather than with middle management where their skills are almost always transferable anyway.
 
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Do we really need to go through that again? :rolleyes:

Your own Mercedes funded by private lease you've just taken out and are committed to using your CA probably means you won't even have gone to the interview with a company that only gives CC's even if in all other respects it would be a wise employment move.

Sorry where exactly did I ever suggest a private lease? I rarely ever recommend private leasing, it's usually an exceptionally poor route to take.

Obviously we do need to go through things again if you think I was advocating a private leasing contract!
 
[TW]Fox;18432624 said:
Sorry where exactly did I ever suggest a private lease? I rarely ever recommend private leasing, it's usually an exceptionally poor route to take.

Obviously we do need to go through things again if you think I was advocating a private leasing contract!

Sorry, I thought that was, in part, your position. I apologise if I misunderstood. As you know I was, shall we say fighting on many fronts and had trouble keeping up with where each shot came from. Many were irrational shots but I felt out or courtesy I should reply to all.

Anyway, certainly if your position was/is to purchase a vehicle that makes more sense. But tell me where would the funding come from for this relatively new, BMW for example? Surely most people would finance it via use of their CA? However, I do agree that if the vehicle was purchased, even on finance one could, if one wanted to move on, simply settle the finance and then sell the vehicle to recover costs.

As I've stated above though the impetus seems to be to eventually restrict so tightly what types of car can be used for business mileage that if one wants a really decent motor one has to think of it as a second car. Because sure as hell it won't be long before you'll need something that hardly has any emissions at all to use for your business miles.
 
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