ICC Profile , Colour Management , Colour WorkSpace

Neil79

Neil79

Neil79

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Instead of constantly making seperate threads :rolleyes::rolleyes: i'll just use this one !

Right i've calibrated my monitor with Eye-One Hardware Calibrator, i believe the colours are now spot on!. This Calibrated profile has been set to my monitor as EYE ONE.ICC

1. When i open Adobe Elements it has the option of " Colour Settings " Always Optimize Colours For Computer Screens. Always Optmize for printing or Allow me to Choose. What do i pick?

2. I've now got my image, it's done and ready to save. It has an option for ICC PROFILE and it says EYE ONE.ICC. Which is my calibrated monitor profile, Do i use this TICKED or when saving to web and printing or Don't use a profile?

3. Shall I Convert the profile to Adobe RGB or SRGB OR leave it as untagged RGB?. This goes for web uploading and printing.

4. In Corel it has Colour Working Space, which do i use?.

5. In Corel should Colour Management Be off?

6. When Printing do you prefer the printer to take charge or let Adobe/Corel manage printing?

THANKYOU :D :D

p.s The links that people provide to google are so widely different, with people suggesting Adobe RGB only while others SRGB, so i'll just go with your advice ;)
 
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I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that there's a difference between the colour space that an image is worked with in, and the profile that's used for a particular output device.

The ICC profile you've created is basically a giant look-up table that transforms absolute (LAB?) colour values to colour values based on the gamut of your monitor. It basically tries to make sure that what you see most closely resembles the colour information in the image.

In terms of image working space, this represents the gamut, or range of colours, that are used by the image. sRGB has the smallest range of colours, but will most likely fit into the gamuts of most viewing/printing devices, so it's the one thats most commonly used on the web. If you're printing, you might convert it to a CMYK workspace, as that will give you a better gamut for most CMYK printers. Best results would be obtained when printing if you've got a profile for the particular printer you're using (just like what you've got for your monitor).

In short:

1) It sounds like Elements is trying to ask you whether you want to work in sRGB (for computer screens), perhaps AdobeRGB (for printing) or let you choose. I'd personally want to maintain my choice here - it could be that I want to work in a much wider colourspace (ProphotoRGB) that then gives better results further down the line.

2) How are you saving? Photoshop has a "Save" and a "Save for web". I believe save for web converts the colour space to sRGB if it's not there already. You shouldn't be attaching your EYE ONE.ICC profile to the image though - that's just for your screen and your use only.

3) In terms of RGB colour spaces, sRGB works best for monitors (it fits nicely inside most monitor gamuts), whereas AdobeRGB works a bit better on printers. Realisticly, if you're printing, I'd try and do it properly - work in CMYK and get the profile of the printer

4) Depends on whether you're outputting for web or print. See (3)

5) Normally, you want applications to be colour managed, so I'd suggest 'on', assuming that switch does what I think it does.

6) Difficult one this. Going to let those with more experience weigh in.
 
Thanks Growse :D, ahh if only things were easier lol

st_peters_window_by_pirateneilsouth-d398hce.jpg


This is the image i did after calibration, it has no profile(untagged), no colour management
 
Neil79 said:
1. When i open Adobe Elements it has the option of " Colour Settings " Always Optimize Colours For Computer Screens. Always Optmize for printing or Allow me to Choose. What do i pick?
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I haven't got the faintest idea what those options are referring to.

If you select 'Allow me to Choose' what does it allow you to choose from?

Neil79 said:
2. I've now got my image, it's done and ready to save. It has an option for ICC PROFILE and it says EYE ONE.ICC. Which is my calibrated monitor profile, Do i use this TICKED or when saving to web and printing or Don't use a profile?
Click to expand...
That profile shouldn't go anywhere near your images; it's merely information that allows your OS to know how your monitor displays colours.

Your images should have either an sRGB or Adobe RGB profile embedded, or an appropriate profile for your chosen output device.

Neil79 said:
3. Shall I Convert the profile to Adobe RGB or SRGB OR leave it as untagged RGB?. This goes for web uploading and printing.
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Stick with sRGB for now. Adobe RGB and ProPhoto RGB can come later.

Neil79 said:
4. In Corel it has Colour Working Space, which do i use?.
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I'd suggest sRGB.

Neil79 said:
5. In Corel should Colour Management Be off?
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Presumably not, if you intend to manage your colour workflow.

Neil79 said:
6. When Printing do you prefer the printer to take charge or let Adobe/Corel manage printing?
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I soft-proof in Photoshop using the appropriate printer profile, adjust a copy of my chosen image until I'm happy with the results and then send the image off to my printers.

If I was printing at home, I'd use whatever piece of software was best for the job. And I think I'd probably trust Photoshop more than whatever came with the printer.
 
My colours are nearly spot on via Soft-Proof however i'm unable to give deeper colours, for example the red on the pillar in original is Deep With contrast. The one with the printer looks like faded red.

What would i change to fix this?

EDIT : This is really ****** me off
 
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1. Calibrated Monitor with EYE-One, SRGB WorkSpace
2jcdkjk.jpg


2. Printer Canon Ip4500 - Profile -> Canon iP4500/Mp610 Series GL2
nou6mp.jpg


:mad::mad:

1. Correct
2. WRONG

There is a general haze across the entire image, more noticable if you look at the Correct Red in the pillar on my calibrated screen and the wrong one on the printer shot. I'm trying to match them up so i can print out what i saw on my screen but it's just NOT doing it, it's terrible for example you want nice rich deep colours and it's as if you've got an extra layer of dirty glass on the screen.
 
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Hi Neil

I've read this thread and the one you posted previously and I think you're having problems as you haven't calibrated your printer for the paper you are using.

Are you still using the Tesco paper and are you using genuine Canon inks or compatible?

What paper setting are you using in the printer driver?
 
TheBigCheese said:
Hi Neil

I've read this thread and the one you posted previously and I think you're having problems as you haven't calibrated your printer for the paper you are using.

Are you still using the Tesco paper and are you using genuine Canon inks or compatible?

What paper setting are you using in the printer driver?
Click to expand...

These images are PRE-Printer, not even printed yet :( so a huge difference before they are even printed.

Anyway, Tesco Premium Glossy top of the range for tesco it comes in that silver pack. They recommend Glossy 2 or Pro for canon both gives me crap images, not using Genuine Canon Inks but Compatible. I'm extremely limited by funds i've already blown a ton of money getting this sorted but failing :(.

Thanks mate

P.s Canon Recommend the Canon iP4500/Mp610 Series GL2 setting for Glossy or PR1 for Pro Photo and my ip4500
 
I use Lightroom and CS4 so have no experience with Elements.

However, firstly, all the various ICC profiles are just so the image will look the same wherever they are - screen or print. When printing, you really need to use an ICC profile for the paper & printer you are printing on. Then you need to make sure your printer has it's own colour management stuff disabled - no photo enhance or anything like that. This is what it looks like on mine. Ilford paper supply profiles matched to printers.




As for RGB colour space, this does fundamentally affect what colours are in your image. What you use will depend on what the origial image colour space is. AdobeRGB (1998) is a larger colour space than sRGB. Most DSLRs can be set to capture either. I always have it set to AdobeRGB then convert to sRGB for the web as web browsers can't read the wider colour space of AdobeRGB and these images will look flat in a browser otherwise.

These sites are helpful in trying to get your head round it:

http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/firefox-color-management.html
 
To be honest when i read all these calibration profiles adobe/srgb i get completely lost when it comes to the printer!. I've always uploaded SRGB when doing internet, but it's only now since i want to be professional i'm running into these issues.

Pretty gutted really :(

Though i am extremely greatful for the help!
 
Neil79 said:
These images are PRE-Printer, not even printed yet :( so a huge difference before they are even printed.
Click to expand...

Oh...hmmm...that is a bit of a tricky one then...I need to get some sleep now but I'll have look at your workflow tomorrow and ask the missus to look, see if we can see if you are missing anything.

We've done it ourselves and got it spot on from scanning -> editing -> printing so hopefully we will be able to help. :)
 
I sent two images to a family member, i said which one do you prefer. I didn't even mention what picture is from what profile.

She said, I prefer that one

The one she picked was the Monitor Calibrated image, so even people with a different system and LCD notice how crap the printer profile image is.
 
Is #2 image above generated with a soft-proof?

Just to say, obviously if you display an image on a monitor with a printer ICC profile, it'll look very very weird.
 
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/soft-proofing.htm


Stage 1: Color Space Conversion.
Turn on the "Gamut Warning" feature in your software, if available (shift+ctrl+Y in Photoshop), since this will indicate which on-screen colors are outside the printer's color gamut. Pay careful attention to what happens to these out-of-gamut colors during the soft proof. Problematic colors often include the saturated mid-tone colors (especially the reds), since most printers cannot reproduce these as intensely as monitors.

A small reduction in color saturation is usually acceptable (and unavoidable), but changes in hue should be prevented whenever possible. If you see a change in hue (such as a reddish region becoming orangeish), then you may need to try a different rendering intent. Otherwise your only other option would be to tweak the original image colors in that region until you achieve an acceptable soft proof.
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:mad::(


EDIT : There is a +10 to +15 Red Colour Balance compared to the orignal monitor image, so there is a hue problem in soft proofing before printer!. Yes also the faided colours
 
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Morning Neil

Ah, looking at your last post I think you've answered your own question. :(

What we do is work on a document with no embedded colour profile and print to our own calibrated paper, we also use Epson Ultrachrome HDR inks which have a very wide colour gamet so we haven't really run into your problems.

We don't think you are getting anything wrong, you have just hit the brick wall of what your printer can reproduce unfortunately.

I think really you have a couple of options as the combination of printer and inks you are using are limiting you.

1. Invest in a pro printer, genuine inks and pro paper, this gives you full control but is not cheap (I can vouch for that!).

2. Send some prints to a pro lab, just a few and see what the results come out like. If they are to your liking then just use them for all your printing needs.

You will only be spending a few pounds at a time and you will get your money back if you manage to sell them, you did mention about going pro so you have to get the best possible quality for the least outlay - you don't want your customers to be coming back angry in six months because the colour has shifted because of the paper/ink combo you were using, that would seriously damage your reputation.
 
Thanks TBC, depressing to read but i thought as much.

Thankyou for taking the time to respond to my thread :)
 
Ok I'm on my phone so I can't really go into depth nor properly see the images you've uploaded, but I think you're getting confused with what you're expecting to get out of screen calibration and a colour managed workflow.

Let's set a couple of things straight (not in a condescending tone, just how it is!).

1) Just because you've got a IPS panel monitor and have profiled it using a device, it doesn't mean either a) its even showing the right colours or b) it will match your prints (or more specifically judging by your wording that your prints will match it). Your monitor is undoubtedly closer than it was before, but don't think its suddenly an example ultimate accuracy. It will still be displaying some things wrong.

2) Colour is only one element to consider when screen to print matching. Luminance of the monitor, viewing conditions of the print (varying brightness and colour temperature) contrast ratio of both the screen and print. The list goes on!

3) Softproofing isn't a process that gets your image ready for print itself. It does nothing more than simulate the print on the screen. This itself has differing options (in Photoshop cs at least, don't know about Elements) for simulating some of the different options I mentioned above. Once you've softproofed you then have to adjust the image to make the most of the gamut and contrast offered by the printer. Gamut size is improving all the time but contrast ratio is still lacking by quite a way. It just won't look as punchy as it does on screen.

I would do what's been suggested above and get a few good inkjet prints done at a lab to see what you can get out of prints at the moment. You can then decide if the expense on your own printer system is worth it.
 
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