Faith...

I've just recalled what Isaac Asimov said. It may have some relevance here. He said that in his opinion Science won over Faith/Religion the minute that they started fitting lightning conductors to Churches.
 
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VFM Addict said:
I've just recalled what Isaac Asimov said. It may have some relevance here. He said that in his opinion Science won over Faith/Religion the minute that they started fitting lightning conductors to Churches.
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He said a couple of other things I quite like:

Asimov said:
I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.
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I like his honesty and that he doesn't predispose that his belief is a scientific fact, but an emotional ideology

I am not yet at the point where I am emotionally that sure of myself or my position to make that same judgement.

Asimov said:
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
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always springs to mind when listening the militant atheists.

And my favourite:

Asimov said:
"I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be."
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Mad Hatter take note....;)
 
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science can not provide evidence of god. you either believe in it or not. even many scientists think there probably is divine power. why would people need prove to accept it. when people don't believe they are simply not spiritually attuned and think that their physical flesh is is almighty. when you look up in the sky and realise the scope of universe how can someone be so dumb
 
Castiel said:
I do not think that you are representative of the general British public.

I do believe that you are representative of a highly vocal minority who express there own inadequacy and fear by transposing that onto minority groups, the Muslims being the in vogue group at the current time.
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Why is it when anyone objects to "other" faiths infringing in our own culture, (& lets be fair..it's world domination they are after), we have the likes of you pointing at us with accusations that we are "inadequate", full of "fear", "racist", etc etc etc. Are you so stupid as to really think we are all quivering nervous wrecks? else skinheads ready to stab anyone that's different? No what you see on these forums are expressions from your average Joe public....it does'nt turn them into out & out racists..nor someone living in fear of the unknown..stop quoting the same old crap & get a grip. (& as for accusing someone of being highly vocal, it has to be said you seem to thrive within these religious threads, being vocal.)
 
Hatter The Mad said:
You are right, I worded it very simplistically and it is not a blanket rule - but if an assertion is unfalsifiable (which God is and the Boson is not) then yes, it is false until proven otherwise.
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Science absolutely does not make a statement that an untestable hypothesis is false.

The closest that science comes is the idea that an untestable hypothesis is scientifically irrelevant and can be ignored. That's completely different to declaring the hypothesis false.
 
CD32 said:
Why is it when anyone objects to "other" faiths infringing in our own culture, (& lets be fair..it's world domination they are after), we have the likes of you pointing at us with accusations that we are "inadequate", full of "fear", "racist", etc etc etc. Are you so stupid as to really think we are all quivering nervous wrecks? else skinheads ready to stab anyone that's different? No what you see on these forums are expressions from your average Joe public....it does'nt turn them into out & out racists..nor someone living in fear of the unknown..stop quoting the same old crap & get a grip. (& as for accusing someone of being highly vocal, it has to be said you seem to thrive within these religious threads, being vocal.)
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So you're not afraid, but the muslims are after world domination. Is it only the muslims you want to eradicate or the Christians as well

You want me to get a grip......:rolleyes:


Maybe a mod could do a poll on whether the forum members think you are representative of the general public?
 
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sajtion said:
science can not provide evidence of god. you either believe in it or not. even many scientists think there probably is divine power. why would people need prove to accept it. when people don't believe they are simply not spiritually attuned and think that their physical flesh is is almighty. when you look up in the sky and realise the scope of universe how can someone be so dumb
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Gods were something that was created many ages ago when man had no answers to life & the universe to explain it all away & make sense of it all..so they had to create gods of all kinds & worship them else the sky would fall on them etc...of course we have moved on since then with technology etc....to continue to follow the old ways of the world where people had no knowledge & believed in gods to compensate for their non-understanding of the heavens etc...well only the stupid would follow faiths based on this without question after all this time & at the same time try to drag the whole world down with them into their stoneage culture.
 
CD32 said:
Gods were something that was created many ages ago when man had no answers to life & the universe to explain it all away & make sense of it all..so they had to create gods of all kinds & worship them else the sky would fall on them etc...of course we have moved on since then with technology etc....to continue to follow the old ways of the world where people had no knowledge & believed in gods to compensate for their non-understanding of the heavens etc...well only the stupid would follow faiths based on this without question after all this time & at the same time try to drag the whole world down with them into their stoneage culture.
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Citation of conclusive evidence needed to turn statement of faith into something more concrete ;)
 
Castiel said:
but the muslims are after world domination. You want me to get a grip......:rolleyes:
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For someone who trolls the religious threads a lot you seem to be denying that fact there for the sake of point scoring....but I don't think you're that stupid to deny that this is the goal of Islam in many followers.
 
CD32 said:
For someone who trolls the religious threads a lot you seem to be denying that fact there for the sake of point scoring....but I don't think you're that stupid to deny that this is the goal of Islam in many followers.
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So you think the average Muslim is a member of some global conspiracy to subjugate everyone else?
 
Dolph said:
Science absolutely does not make a statement that an untestable hypothesis is false.
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I did not say untestable - I said unfalsifiable. Agnosticism is giving credence to the arbitrary, which science does not do.

Agnosticism doesn't consider what we have verified and do know which makes it a false position, no?


Castiel said:
So you think the average Muslim is a member of some global conspiracy to subjugate everyone else?
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Well, not subjugate (depends which Muslims you speak to), but conversion of the entire world is what every Muslim is compelled to do. Exactly how conversion should take place (by the word, by the sword, or by the word and if that fails then by the sword, or by destruction of the 'unconvertibles') is a matter of debate among Muslims. Fortunately for non-Muslims, most take the former and leave it at that, or don't care at all ;)
 
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mglover070588 said:
Started reading it but got bored when I realised how long it was. Sorry!
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Haha, I didn't expect you to read it all, it simply illustrates that some people come to faith at a later time in their lives.

Atheism is (in my opinion) something that is predominantly something people believe in their youth, and as they get older and more aware of their mortality they become more open to spirituality.

Not always and not necessarily religion, just less sure of their Atheist roots.
 
Castiel said:
So you think the average Muslim is a member of some global conspiracy to subjugate everyone else?
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That is your own conveniently narrowed down interpretation of what I said.....those are the bones you are trying to pick..along with being fearful etc etc etc....I'm not interested in a drawn out "intellectual" debate with you because you have issues with what I posted. Take it elsewhere.
 
CD32 said:
That is your own conveniently narrowed down interpretation of what I said.....those are the bones you are trying to pick..along with being fearful etc etc etc....I'm not interested in a drawn out "intellectual" debate with you because you have issues with what I posted. Take it elsewhere.
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I don't think you know what you are saying yourself tbh.

It all seems a little manic and confused. Especially as you began this by quoting me, I have no need to take it elsewhere.
 
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Hatter The Mad said:
I did not say untestable - I said unfalsifiable. Agnosticism is giving credence to the arbitrary, which science does not do.

Agnosticism doesn't consider what we have verified and do know which makes it a false position, no?
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An unfalsifiable hypothesis cannot be investigated using the scientific method, science therefore takes no position on it beyond irrelevancy. It absolutely does not declare it false.
 
Castiel said:
I don't think you know what you are saying yourself tbh.

It all seems a little manic and confused. Especially as you began this by quoting me, I have no need to take it elsewhere.
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Do you always sidestep what is put to you?
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Well, not subjugate (depends which Muslims you speak to), but conversion of the entire world is what every Muslim is compelled to do. Exactly how conversion should take place (by the word, by the sword, or by the word and if that fails then by the sword, or by destruction of the 'unconvertibles') is a matter of debate among Muslims. Fortunately for non-Muslims, most take the former and leave it at that, or don't care at all ;)
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That depends entirely on interpretation, also interestingly the Qu'ran only states that Muslims should fight against those who persecute Muslims and should they stop, then so should Muslims.

Does it contradict itself? all the time, but then so does every other religion in the world. The same is true of the Bible, but do you think that Christians are hell bent on world domination?

As for God, they wish everyone to believe in Allah, considering that both Judaism and Christianity also believe in that same God (people of the book) conversion is not necessary.

So basically some Muslims do indeed believe that Jihad is about converting the world to Islam, however they are not the majority and the Qu'ran doesn't actually state what you say it does.

Interpretation is a damned thing, is it not?


And the very vagueness of Religion is why I do not accept them. People seem to ignore that fact.
 
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