How much of a ****

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 21:51

Would I be if I sold my 306 Rallye and bought a track prepped 106 GTI or a Saxo VTS?

I want to do more trackdays, but its not financially viable to track prepare the 306, looking at 2k minimum to do so, I might as well just buy another car that has already been done for me then add a few bits myself.

Heres the car I have been musing over just wondering why he is selling it so soon, but has a good spec and is pretty much useable as is, just add track tyres.

Stinky · 26 Feb 2011 at 21:57

if you dont need it as a daily driver go for it

edit: didnt notice it was MOT'd ignore me

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:03

I won't use it as a daily driver.

However I'd need it MOT'd to drive to and from tracks as I don't have

a)A suitable trailer
b)A suitable tow car/van/4x4
c)A license to tow such a weight
d)A place to store A+B.

sigma · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:05

Cage doesn't look all that great in that Saxo. :s

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:14

sigma said:
Cage doesn't look all that great in that Saxo. :s

Unless I have missed something it looks like the standard OMP cage to me?

I know it doesn't go down the A pillars as its only the 6 point not the 10.

sigma · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:16

I'm no expert but don't most cages have a double cross (from corner to corner at the rear)?

Must just be me.

Joshy · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:30

Why would you need £2k minimum to start doing more track days in the Rallye? :confused:

Come on, DS2500 Pads, R888s/Fed RSRs and bucket, harness + some strippage. You KNOW it makes sense

.

haz_pro · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:32

Saxo looks decent, seen it on saxperience (saxo forum) and seems well looked after.

Guy did indeed get it last october, i have the for sale thread link but you wont be able to view it (100 posts and 30 days membership).

Something strange though is it was on 78000 miles when he bought it (last october), strange that it hasnt changed? i think so any way.

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:35

haz_pro said:
Saxo looks decent, seen it on saxperience (saxo forum) and seems well looked after.

Guy did indeed get it last october, i have the for sale thread link but you wont be able to view it (100 posts and 30 days membership).

Something strange though is it was on 78000 miles when he bought it (last october), strange that it hasnt changed? i think so any way.

Says in his thread hes just been doing work on it, have sent him a couple of emails but he's a little slow to reply.

Any chance you could PDF the original sellers thread and email it to me, would be much appreciated.

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:40

Joshy said:
Why would you need £2k minimum to start doing more track days in the Rallye?

Come on, DS2500 Pads, R888s/Fed RSRs and bucket, harness + some strippage. You KNOW it makes sense .

I have the DS2500s already and the R888s.

Its too wallowy and slow to turn in/change direction on track.

£500 cage + fitting
£400 used buckets, runners, harnesses
£400-800 on Gaz golds or KW v2's
£150 solid rear beam mounts
£150 hybrid rear arb

Then uprated rear torsion bars to reduce the roll...

Then I would want better brakes as they don't have enough stopping power as is.

Been down the road before when I had my turbo Rovers, had to end up breaking the car to get the cash back. PITA doing it and end up with some parts left over at the end always.

And you would never see that money back when coming to sell the car. Thats my main sticking point, I don't want to spend thousands on the car that Ill never see a return on.

Joshy · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:48

Fair enough, at least you've done a few basic mods. Are you still on standard suspension?

I'm not going to argue, it you want a car built to a similar sort of spec as that Saxo buying pre built is obviously a lot cheaper than doing it yourself, and less hassle too, but I am not convinced you really have to go that far.

Not tempted to go to R(ight) Wheel Drive in the form of an E36 Coupe? That sort of money would buy a very sorted (track wise) 328i.

haz_pro · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:49

Berger said:
Says in his thread hes just been doing work on it, have sent him a couple of emails but he's a little slow to reply.

Any chance you could PDF the original sellers thread and email it to me, would be much appreciated.

karl at rcbits dot co dot uk

Just trying to save it as a pdf now, having done this before so trying to find a way to do it!

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:55

Joshy said:
Fair enough, at least you've done a few basic mods. Are you still on standard suspension?

I'm not going to argue, it you want a car built to a similar sort of spec as that Saxo buying pre built is obviously a lot cheaper than doing it yourself, and less hassle too, but I am not convinced you really have to go that far.

Not tempted to go to R(ight) Wheel Drive in the form of an E36 Coupe? That sort of money would buy a very sorted (track wise) 328i.

Still using standard suspension as my car had brand new Peugeot OE shocks and springs last year as well as most of the bushes replacing.

If it was knackered then I would replace it with uprated stuff.

I've not seen any good 325/328 track prepped cars for ~2k, most are much more, plus the cost of running one is a lot higher. Feel free to prove me wrong!

New engine for a VTS/GTI is only a couple of hundred, discs are cheap, tyres are cheaper etc.

Berger · 26 Feb 2011 at 22:56

haz_pro said:
Just trying to save it as a pdf now, having done this before so trying to find a way to do it!

Sure it can just be zipped with all the original images and stuff otherwise mate!

haz_pro · 26 Feb 2011 at 23:01

Advert sent to the email mate, as a pdf!

Lopéz · 26 Feb 2011 at 23:08

sigma said:
I'm no expert but don't most cages have a double cross (from corner to corner at the rear)?

Must just be me.

Yes, just you. Looks like a normal 6 or 10 point bolt in cage to me.

Joshy · 26 Feb 2011 at 23:59

Berger said:
I've not seen any good 325/328 track prepped cars for ~2k, most are much more, plus the cost of running one is a lot higher. Feel free to prove me wrong!

New engine for a VTS/GTI is only a couple of hundred, discs are cheap, tyres are cheaper etc.

You don't tend to see them with a 'kitchen sink' spec list, but if your willing to forgo the full cage and other such bells and whistles I don't think you'd struggle to find a decently preped car for around £2,500. After all, look what just £1k could get:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2499016.htm

A VTS/GTI will obviously be cheaper to run, but I don't think the running costs are really that bad on an E36. Parts are still relatively cheap and plentiful

arcamalpha · 27 Feb 2011 at 08:26

Berger said:
I have the DS2500s already and the R888s.

Its too wallowy and slow to turn in/change direction on track.

£500 cage + fitting
£400 used buckets, runners, harnesses
£400-800 on Gaz golds or KW v2's
£150 solid rear beam mounts
£150 hybrid rear arb

Then uprated rear torsion bars to reduce the roll...

Then I would want better brakes as they don't have enough stopping power as is.

Been down the road before when I had my turbo Rovers, had to end up breaking the car to get the cash back. PITA doing it and end up with some parts left over at the end always.

And you would never see that money back when coming to sell the car. Thats my main sticking point, I don't want to spend thousands on the car that Ill never see a return on.

I don't know much at the 106/Saxo that you are considering, but I've owned a 306 Rallye and an XSi. I'm not sure putting semi slicks on the Rallye is a good idea with standard suspension. You'll just overwhelm the spring rates with the grip available. You'd be better with standard roads tyres.

I'd suggest you keep the 306 as you know it well with regard to reliability etc. The brakes are probably fine, although you can squeeze 406 Brembos on a 306, so upgrade the suspension with something better for track work. I'm not sure what you'd have to do at the rear given the torsion bar, but I'm sure there are options. Add some light weight wheels and of course strip at much weight from the interior as possible.

Talk to Carl at http://www.cgcarsleicester.co.uk/ He's a Peugeot nut, particular 306 GTi-6s and Rallyes so will know the best options.

Berger · 27 Feb 2011 at 09:56

arcamalpha said:
I don't know much at the 106/Saxo that you are considering, but I've owned a 306 Rallye and an XSi. I'm not sure putting semi slicks on the Rallye is a good idea with standard suspension. You'll just overwhelm the spring rates with the grip available. You'd be better with standard roads tyres.

I'd suggest you keep the 306 as you know it well with regard to reliability etc. The brakes are probably fine, although you can squeeze 406 Brembos on a 306, so upgrade the suspension with something better for track work. I'm not sure what you'd have to do at the rear given the torsion bar, but I'm sure there are options. Add some light weight wheels and of course strip at much weight from the interior as possible.

I've owned a GTI-6, a Xsara VTS supercharged and now a 306 Rallye and have tracked them all. Using road tyres on the first two and then road and R888s on the last. Work well on standard suspension just have some roll to contend with, comparing the tyres back to back there is a MASSIVE difference when you are using R888 even compared to the best road tyres.

You can fit 406 Brembos, however these require aftermarket wheels to fit.

As said above, you would want some reasonable coilovers, uprated torsion bars, solid rear mounts and a hybrid ARB for the rear.

Starts to get expensive then, taking me back to my first post.

I had Carl do my MOT and cambelt/aux/waterpump change last December and was pretty happy with his work.

Shad · 27 Feb 2011 at 10:20

You're always going to be better off buying something that someone else has spent the money on to get up to scratch. As you say, you never see that money again when you sell the car unless you break it.

Smart buy IMO