The future direction of BMW

[[TW]Fox]

I've heard that as well. I'm definitely swaying more towards the 330i just because I can't see enough of a difference performance wise between the two - at least not enough to justify the extra cost. I won't know until I've driven both of them though.

Yea, same situation really.

If I do decide to get one it's not going to be for at least another 12 months anyway which gives me time to research. Mind you, finding the perfect low mileage 330i Coupe M Sport with a manual box will probably take me 12 months!

There are only 250 of them in total let alone for sale, with the right spec, in the right condition

 

[Burned_Alive]

There are only 250 of them in total let alone for sale, with the right spec, in the right condition

Now you probably see (maybe you did before) why I ended up getting a 330d and also considered/bought the auto. I will be extremely impressed if you end up finding your ideally specced 330i in manual form.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I think it'll be availability rather than the best car that'll choose between 335i and 330i. On balance I think the 330i is the better car, but I might end up in a 335i simply because the 330i just isn't around in the right spec/trim.

 

[PMKeates]

Me too. Both cars are very rare.

I am swayed on one side by the appeal of 3 litres *and* two turbos with more than 300bhp. But I am pulled by the other side with numerous claims amongst people with quite impressive car histories complaining about how dull and boring the power delivery is in the 335i, how it tails off very fast at 5rpm and how a proper N/A a-la 330i is simply more enjoyable to drive, coupled with the sort of economy that 5 years ago you needed a diesel to obtain.

Because lets face it, both do 0-60 in 5.something so both are easily quick enough.

In my opinion, the 335i vs the 330i standard tune is a close call. 306hp vs 272hp, headache vs relative reliability and lolconomy vs pretty decent returns. The benefit of the 335i is in tuned form, where you will outdo an E46 M3 and all sorts of other 'fast' cars in a straight line. DMS quote some ridiculous +76hp for the 335i, taking it to 110hp over the 330i. The in-gear performance of a tuned 335i is also far superior to the 330i, as you'd expect with not far off twice as much torque.

 

[Kingy]

Seems like a non-issue to me.

The 335i is an eco-excuse for a V8. The success of that is a precedent for the replacement of the 325i with a turbo 4 pot.

The real shame is that the introduction of the 335i seems to have killed off the 330i. I felt disappointed by the Z4 35i I drove, but that was largely down to the DCT box, which is better than an auto, but nowhere near as involving as a proper manual.

As much as I'll be sad to see N/A engines disappear fom the range, it does make you wonder what the 4 pot turbo economy will be like, as it will need to better the <40mpg of the current 325i. The extra torque will benefit more than the power delivery will disappoint most company car drivers.

While personnally I prefer a 6 pot N/A to anything either 4 pot and / or turbo charged, if it delivers 240bhp, 40-45mpg, and doesn't sound like a tractor, maybe the petrol engine will start to cleanse the streets of sooty farming tools...

In which case I'm all for it!

 

[naefeart]

So, its confirmed that the 3.0l straight six is dead and replaced with the twin scroll turbod 2 litre four pot What a sad direction for BMW to take.

It doesn't really affect me atm, but it does concern me about where this road leads us with regards to future models.

The model line up used to go 330 > M3 and more recently 330 > 335 > M3. Once the 2litre engines are in the line up, doesn't this increase the jump (in displacement and power) to the next M3?

 

[[TW]Fox]

The 335i is an eco-excuse for a V8. The success of that

Success?

6500 335i's of any type registered between productiong starting and early 2010. (And more or less exactly the same number of 330i as well since 2005).

29000 330i of any type registered in the E46's production life.

You call that success?

 

[Kingy]

Success?

6500 335i's of any type registered between productiong starting and early 2010. (And more or less exactly the same number of 330i as well since 2005).

29000 330i of any type registered in the E46's production life.

You call that success?

I read that it won several engine design awards?

Is the 335i not the highest selling petrol 6 pot 3 series?

Where are you getting all these sales figures from?

A hen's tooth!

 

[[TW]Fox]

I read that it won several engine design awards?

It did, it's a fantastic engine but that doesn't translate to instant success in the UK market, does it?

Is the 335i not the highest selling petrol 6 pot 3 series?

No - there are 3 times as many 325i's.

A hen's tooth!

I know, I've been looking at that ad for a week now. Just a shame it has the bland-tastic interior colour or I'd almost be tempted to move early

 

[Kingy]

It did, it's a fantastic engine but that doesn't translate to instant success in the UK market, does it?

No - there are 3 times as many 325i's.

I know, I've been looking at that ad for a week now. Just a shame it has the bland-tastic interior colour or I'd almost be tempted to move early

Ok, fair enough, I back down. The 335i is more prevalent than the 330i.

I noticed the interior too, shame really, as everything else seems spot on.

What are the options of choice on the 3 series? Personnally I'd want Xenons (standard on the E92?), Bluetooth, Pro Nav, Connected Drive, Style 225s, electric heated seats and electric folding mirrors, but is there anything else, or any packages to look out for?

I just did a national search for petrol 3ltr coupes with a manual box, using "M Sport nav" as keywords to filter out any chrome or lack of I Drive equppied models, and found..... 14 examples.

Is it just a case of waiting for there to be more >3 year old ex lease examples about?

When was the new i drive implemented, and what are the differences? I know the new one is hard drive based, but there must be more to it than that?

If this one ticks all the other boxes bar the interior, is it worth trying to pick up a red or champagne interior second hand and swapping it? Is the M3 interior compatible?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Xenons are standard fit on all E92's. Media Package gives you Pro Nav, Bluetooth, Voice Control, Connected Drive etc.

Heated seats are an option but almost all seem to have it. The Style 225's I want to avoid, or will sell as soon as I get the car because:

a) They look horrible
b) They crucify the already not brilliant ride quality
c) It is £1050 for a set of tyres, delivered, from Camskill. On a 3 Series. No thanks.

Electric folding mirrors is confusing me - some have it but it isn't listed as an available option nor standard fit in my 2008 E92 brochure

The new Idrive was implemented from 58 plate onwards (Though some '58's dont have it) and introduces the HDD, completely new menu structure, better graphics etc.

Problem with an interior swap is that on the Cream Beige interior all the lower dash plastics are cream beige as well. Part of the appeal of a nearly new car is that its nice and fresh and rattle free and ripping the insides out to change the colour of the interior seems counter productive.

The reason for waiting until later in the year is a combination of trivial reasons and one important one:

a) At the moment, the odd really nice one pops up for under £20k - ie like the one you've linked. Quite a few are just above that. In 6 months time, I'm confident that £20k gives you the pick of any example you want.

b) I <3 my E39. I'm still not ready to move on A bit more time...

c) More savings = good

 

[Kingy]

Xenons are standard fit on all E92's. Media Package gives you Pro Nav, Bluetooth, Voice Control, Connected Drive etc.

Heated seats are an option but almost all seem to have it. The Style 225's I want to avoid, or will sell as soon as I get the car because:

a) They look horrible
b) They crucify the already not brilliant ride quality
c) It is £1050 for a set of tyres, delivered, from Camskill. On a 3 Series. No thanks.

Electric folding mirrors is confusing me - some have it but it isn't listed as an available option nor standard fit in my 2008 E92 brochure

The new Idrive was implemented from 58 plate onwards (Though some '58's dont have it) and introduces the HDD, completely new menu structure, better graphics etc.

Problem with an interior swap is that on the Cream Beige interior all the lower dash plastics are cream beige as well. Part of the appeal of a nearly new car is that its nice and fresh and rattle free and ripping the insides out to change the colour of the interior seems counter productive.

/me goes searching for media rather than nav...

I knew it would happen eventually but you sir are in fact wrong! Style 225s are awesome! Second only to CSLs (or the BBS equivalent). What are the tyre sizes for the 19's? Surely you're quoting RFTs for that money? Wouldn't they get ditched anyway?

Hang on, if not 225s, what wheels? Surely you wouln't ruin an otherwise epic 3 series with the world of sorrow and misery that is MV3's?

 

[david25]

Who has the best petrol 4-pot on the market today- Audi? Does it get anywhere near a six cylinder engine in refinement terms?

I reckon it would be the 2.0TSI in the Audi TT (the revised version with cam-chain, balancer shafts etc) AND with Audi only valve lift.

210ps
350nm
154co/2
Band G / 19%BIK

 

[Kingy]

The reason for waiting until later in the year is a combination of trivial reasons and one important one:

a) At the moment, the odd really nice one pops up for under £20k - ie like the one you've linked. Quite a few are just above that. In 6 months time, I'm confident that £20k gives you the pick of any example you want.

b) I <3 my E39. I'm still not ready to move on A bit more time...

c) More savings = good

This pretty much sums up where I am. £20k is serious money. I still like the car I have, and it's not got much further it can depreciate, and the extra savings are all good.

I'd begrude handing over that sort of money for something that wasn't epic. A Z4M is tempting, but so is waiting a bit longer, saving a bit harder and going for something more special. It's an even bigger nightmare finding a Boxster S with all the boxes ticked, and even if you do find one the interior is either boring black or the whole damn interior is *fabulous*.

I either need to be less picky, earn more, or hope that oil prices cause mass panic among E92 M3 owners again, or that everyone with a mint, loaded 997S (damn you Housey!) immediately upgrades to the 991...

 

[[TW]Fox]

/me goes searching for media rather than nav...

99% of them have Media Package because it's usually cheaper than buying Pro nav on its own.

I knew it would happen eventually but you sir are in fact wrong! Style 225s are awesome!

Wrong. Totally wrong. What a boring wheel. A BMW needs dish.

Surely you're quoting RFTs for that money? Wouldn't they get ditched anyway?

225/35/19 and 255/30/19 iirc. Yea, thats the RFT pricing but the non RFT's are still pricey.

Hang on, if not 225s, what wheels? Surely you wouln't ruin an otherwise epic 3 series with the world of sorrow and misery that is MV3's?

This is my dilemma really. Ideally, BBS LM but we all know how much they cost

 

[Kingy]

I reckon it would be the 2.0TSI in the Audi TT (the revised version with cam-chain, balancer shafts etc) AND with Audi only valve lift.

210ps
350nm
154co/2
Band G / 19%BIK

Why is that better than the ~265bhp version in the S3/Golf R?

 

[david25]

Why is that better than the ~265bhp version in the S3/Golf R?

Good question, I selected this one because it's the best compromise between power and efficiency.

Audi valve lift (not installed on the older 265ps motor) gives it the extra push (350nm equalling the 265ps motor).

 

[Burned_Alive]

Electric folding mirrors is confusing me - some have it but it isn't listed as an available option nor standard fit in my 2008 E92 brochure

Mine has folding mirrors and it was listed as an option on the spec when I bought it, if that helps.

 

[Kingy]

99% of them have Media Package because it's usually cheaper than buying Pro nav on its own.

Nice one, ta...

Wrong. Totally wrong. What a boring wheel. A BMW needs dish.

Meh. MV2s, Style 108s, Style 172s, and CSLs (are these BBS CH?) are all perfect examples of epic BMW wheels without dish.

Staggered yes, but no dish for me. Style 77s are epic, but dish belongs on the 5/7 series imo.

225/35/19 and 255/30/19 iirc. Yea, thats the RFT pricing but the non RFT's are still pricey.

Camskill want under 700 for a set of non-RFT F1's... No stock though. £867 inc fitting at MyTyres...

Much more realistic...

This is my dilemma really. Ideally, BBS LM but we all know how much they cost

Not a massive fan of LM's... FAR too much money, and a little too close to the undesireable 'bling yo' scene for my tastes. Aftermarket wheels for BMWs is an incredibly fine art imo.

I'm encouraged by last weeks Top Gear though... Despite the 'scene' paint job on the M3 with whatever the optional pack was called, the wheels looked very CSL-esque! If they can be bought to fit the E92, that's the problem solved!

/me grumbles that all other M wheels suck ass...

 

[Kingy]

Good question, I selected this one because it's the best compromise between power and efficiency.

Audi valve lift (not installed on the older 265ps motor) gives it the extra push (350nm equalling the 265ps motor).

For the benefit of the terminally lazy, what's the fuel economy like? In my head I lump all the 2.0T's together as being ~30-35mpg combined?