Why do we still have rough places in the UK?

Remove the people with mental health issues and you will fix a lot of the UK's problems

what??

How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that "removing" anyone with mental health issues (the vast majority of whom are under care) will fix many of the UK's problems? Seriously?

Do you honestly think that some random guy with Aspergers is helping to cause the downfall of the nation?
 
Bennefits=Government supplied debit card, only good for approved goods, the closest thing I can think of to just giving out rations whch tbh would be prohibitivly expensive, the debit card would make life hard for those who persue alcohol/drugs etc, it would not stop it but it would curb it.

The card would also need to be linked to gas and electricity accounts so people could not finance their habbit by buying other peoples in return for whatever they were after. This would also help by killing the dodgy loan companies that hawk arounmd low income areas.

your missing the whole point. crime rates and violence are only so high in certain areas because these people are stealing things or mugging people to pay for drugs , drugs that cost pittance to produce and make criminal gangs billions of £ . taking money away from them will raise crime even more.

whereas if the government sold these drugs for a smaller profit than gangs (would be stupidly easy) then these 'addicts' would be essentially just paying their benefits back to the government. its still not ideal but it is better than now where the government gives out billions in benefits and it all goes to criminals and to help fund crime.

of course the other option is to fight these criminals better so that no one could buy these 'illegal' drugs even if they want too but its a losing battle that we will never win.
 
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What I don't get is how far we've come as a species and yet a large percentage of us still run around bashing each other over the head. Might be worthy of a new thread.
 
Morals and the idea that hurting other people is bad has smeg all to do with money, or the area, just about individuals. Even when it comes to how you are taught, there are plenty of people with entire families of criminals around them who grow up to think completely different and who do nothing wrong.

As for drugs, theres entirely nothing wrong with drugs. Heres a little hint, for the last several THOUSAND years drugs were legal, as was alcohol and smoking and pretty much everything else. There was little to no crime involved and people weren't overcrowding prisons with people who buy and sell drugs.

When we made drugs illegal, and by "we" I mean in general the western world who decided to arbitrarily impose a random new moral objection to the idea that people might want to alter their state of mind on a drug the western world wasn't heavily taxing, we created an entire industry of criminal enterprise, worth billions and billions of dollars worldwide, with smuggling and crime prevelant and its largely(not completely) these same types of gangs who smuggle drugs and get into crime who partake or move on to other crime, guns, forced prostitution, etc, etc.


Drugs never made illegal, society would be a happier, far lower crime, far less problematic place.

+1
 
By legalising drugs we can, licence farmers or government created drug companies(to keep all the profit in the publics hands), create safer drugs, stop the need to create new utterly unsafe "new" designer drugs where chemists are randomly tagging on stuff to an old drug to make it new and legal for a while without knowing ANY of the side effects.

We can LIMIT the amount people can get making bad drug addiction almost impossible.

Lets say person X wants to try drugs in the UK today, its incredibly easy to get drugs and they cost too much, and for many kids the allure of something being illegal only makes them want to try it more.

You aren't taught that 0.2grams is relatively safe but 1gram will kill you, so kid X goes out, buys 2 grams of something or other, snorts/injects it, od's, gets himself addicated or does it in an unsafe enviroment and ends up off his face blacked out and walks into traffic.

Now, lets say that drug is legal, we teach kids about SAFE usage in school, he can get this LEGALLY for 1/100th of the cost at the local chemist, he can only buy a small dose thats a safe amount, he tries it, he doesn't hide it from his parents because its not illegal, he tries it, he likes it, or maybe hates it, he doesn't get addicted as he's not allowed to buy another dose for two weeks and it was a very low dose anyway.

Now the profits from the drug sales end up paying for schools, or healthcare, or policing.


Now please tell me why legalising drugs would be bad?

For the record I don't like drugs, at all, I HAVE to take codeine for mindsplitting migraines and I HATE how I feel on them and they are weak source, I've had some oxycodone level stuff and mophine both in hospital and they are even worse. I've smoked weed, don't like it. I've drunk alcohol and I like it, so with legalised drugs my drug of choice would STILL be alcohol, and right now I can drink myself to death legally any time I want.

People have had this anti-drug stuff pumped into them for 50 years, and its literally all rubbish, this idea that every single person would do drugs 24-7 given the chance, rubbish, the idea that everyone would get addicted, rubbish.

The fact is legalisation would lead to HEAVY regulation, much LOWER usage than is currently undertaken with basically NONE of the MASSIVE LEVELS OF CRIME in this country that surround the drug trade.

The laughable thing is we started the war on drugs and its cost the USA/UK BILLIONS, well TRILLIONS of dollars over 50 years and the drug trade continues to get more profitable year on year, with usage basically the same it ever was, with less safe drugs, more fake drugs, more kids taking drugs mixed with insanely dangerous other substances without knowing and more and more crime.

Gang culture essentially grew out of the drugs trade, we'd have gangs without them, but its one of the main sources of income for gangs that keeps them growing and making more money.

Unfortunately its not cut and dry, kill the drugs trade in only a few months but legalising it, you'll have lots of gangs commiting other crimes, but you'll also have less growth in gangs and eventual drop off in numbers joining gangs.

Drugs really aren't bad, anyone who says so quite literally has incapable of seeing past the "drugs are bad" messages we've had thrown at us for DECADES.

Of all the people I know who are regular users I only know one who got "bad", I've known more non drug users who were perfectly nice and "normal" who have ended up in worse situations. Plenty of people who use drugs would simply have become criminals or ended up in jail, doing daft crap without drugs, thats just how life is.
 
So - let me get this right. You suggest with regards to crack cocaine:

This forum's ramblings have proved that every single government in the entire world is wrong when it comes to crack cocaine .. and it actually isn't bad for society.


Is that your argument?

That is not my argument at all. Crack is definitely not a good thing for society and is a terrible drug. But the prohibition of crack causes more problems than crack itself. Just same with all the drugs, the prohibition of the drugs causes more problems than the drugs themselves. How you could think that i was some how suggesting that crack was good for society. :confused:
 
People living in poverty have to develop a hard skin to survive, while rich people are usually softies is because everything is handed to them on a plate and they never need to worry about security. Sure they worry about their imac getting stolen from them, but they will just reclaim it on insurance. Poor people worry about where they are going to sleep and how they are going to eat (without state welfare exasperating the problem).

Take south africa for example, some of the poor people are very nice people. They live in a metal shack but they will invite you inside and give you a meal, even though they have nothing left. Other poor people will kill you for your shoes. People are a product of their environment and not a victim of it.
 
That is not my argument at all. Crack is definitely not a good thing for society and is a terrible drug. But the prohibition of crack causes more problems than crack itself. Just same with all the drugs, the prohibition of the drugs causes more problems than the drugs themselves.

I'd be interested to see you prove that.
 
what??

How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that "removing" anyone with mental health issues (the vast majority of whom are under care) will fix many of the UK's problems? Seriously?

Do you honestly think that some random guy with Aspergers is helping to cause the downfall of the nation?

Obviously removing (whatever that means) mentally unstable people is going a bit far but i think changing the way society sees stuff like antisocial behavior, crime and violence to something more like metal illness might be a good idea, any abnormal behavior has a reason and there should be programs in place to fix it.

People shouldn't simply be treated as criminals or scum when they act up, it should be diagnosed and treated like a mental illness, obviously small things and one offs shouldn't necessarily be but repeat offenses and extreme stuff should.
 
I'd be interested to see you prove that.

If i remember correctly and i am at work so i can not have a look, but this documentary is about crack cocaine in the states, the history of it etc.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8231634812734884936#

What we find with crack cocaine is that it is as destructive as crystal meth, well the destructive nature of it is caused by its cheapness and its addictiveness and the way it destroys the body physically. If all drugs are legal then i do not think that crack would be as available as it is. But let just say that crack use continued even though it was legal. The damage would be to the persons body who is taking it and if they could not afford it, they would try to steal it. But with prohibition, we have a massive gang culture behind selling it and you end up buying it from criminals (criminals outside of selling drugs) and in turn you end up associating with criminals and this causes more social harm in the long term than the physical health problems caused by crack.
 
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what??

How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that "removing" anyone with mental health issues (the vast majority of whom are under care) will fix many of the UK's problems? Seriously?

Do you honestly think that some random guy with Aspergers is helping to cause the downfall of the nation?

i think what he means is people who are depressed, destructively-narcissistic and other mental health issues of that nature.

i know so many people who think that the world owes them everything, that they're accountable to no-one, that no-one matters but them and they're perfectly happy to inflict harm and ruin upon anything and everything that they feel like to satisfy their needs at the time.

i think a very large proportion of the UK population has this sort of mindset and it's incredibly societally destructive.
 
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I'm 6 minutes in and I'm not keen on how they're treating that suicidal girl...

What can they do, they know she is just playing, they cant have a prison guard watching her 24/7 it would be impossible.

Sad that she got moved then attacked a guard.
 
Drugs really aren't bad, anyone who says so quite literally has incapable of seeing past the "drugs are bad" messages we've had thrown at us for DECADES.

please enlighten me to how they are good and should be legalised in society before i write you off as a complete moron. and the financials of the fight isn't an argument. here's a clue to why - ''hey, we've saved billions on the war on drugs and get a nice kick back from the taxes but this has all been wiped out by treating our zombie nation''. i'm a smoker myself and i'm not proud of it but hey i pay enough in tax on cigarettes to cover any medical care i may need, right?

wrong
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/assets/Cough_up_PR.pdf

infact, some figures put the true cost of a price of cigarettes on the nhs at close to £100 and considering that you will pay about £6.75 for a pack of 20, this is hardly a fair balance, is it? also flaws the argument that cigarettes are only legal because they can be taxed and marijuana can't.. infact, the more i think about it, the harder i find it to understand why these horrible things are legal? i wish they weren't legal, i wish they'd never been invented!
 
So how come, in today's society we still have really rough areas in the cities? I'm not talking about people who are poor or under-educated, I'm talking about people living in environments where violence and substance-abuse are normal ways of life.
Do you know many rich, well-educated areas of the country where violence and substance abuse is high then?

please enlighten me to how they are good and should be legalised in society before i write you off as a complete moron. and the financials of the fight isn't an argument.
Crime?
Gang control?
The idea that an individual should have full control over what he chooses to do with his body, instead of the state?
 
Gang control?
The idea that an individual should have full control over what he chooses to do with his body, instead of the state?

they'd never be able to control it, it would constantly progress, things would just get made stronger as the legal 'softer stuff' just wouldn't cut it after a whilr and 5 years later, it's gone full circle again. it's a nightmare scenario, imagine what will happen when the first OD victim is found?. if this country ever makes the stupid decision of legalising drugs, i'll be seeking a new home country.
 
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