Earthquake in Japan....9.0...ouch!

Watching the BBC stream, some man was just walking away from the water as it was coming his way, he only started to run when his feet got wet.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Why 1000mw and why 0.3%, decay heat is something close to 7% of total output of the plant, reactor 1 which was the first one in trouble is 460MW, the others are 784MW, as for water, you can't indefinately pump water in, because you can't just continually pump water into a limited space,
Click to expand...

Are you sure they are not just discharging it back into the sea?
 
cheets64 said:
Drunkenmaster you educated in Nuclear physics, you seem to know a lot, just like you know how to manage Arsenal.
Click to expand...

Yes knowing that only the 6th and most recent of the reactors is 1100MW and the earliest reactor which had trouble is a 460MW reactor makes me an expert.

ZOMG, Emirates is 60k seater, Brentford is 12k seater, wow, I'm an expert on that aswell. Its fairly basic info, this isn't the place for "football corner" type banter. If it were I'd tell you that you could comment on football once you start watching a real football team play.
 
Drunkenmaster certainly doesn't know any more about nuclear power than he does about managing Arsenal.

drunkenmaster said:
Why 1000mw and why 0.3%, decay heat is something close to 7% of total output of the plant, reactor 1 which was the first one in trouble is 460MW, the others are 784MW, as for water, you can't indefinately pump water in, because you can't just continually pump water into a limited space, theres no active cooling from the outside yet, which is something I assume that needs to be put in place to be able to comftably maintain the temperature inside the core.
Click to expand...

Decay heat is only 7% in the very instant (tiny fraction of a second) after a fission reaction. In the normal running of a reactor, it contributes around 7% of the total heat. The reactors haven't been running for days though, hence the decay by now to around 0.3%.

I said heat output of a bit over 1000MW. The numbers you are talking about (460, 784) are electrical output. Heat output is 2.5-3 times that.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Yes knowing that only the 6th and most recent of the reactors is 1100MW and the earliest reactor which had trouble is a 460MW reactor makes me an expert.
Click to expand...

Is that the power output rating of the plant or the reactor power level.

The electrical output is probably in the region of 35% of the heat created in the core so it makes a pretty large difference when you look at decay heat %.
 
Evilsod said:
That depends if he's talking from the point of view that 'things continue as they are' or 'things get completely out of hand'. I agree that it would be foolish to completely rule out the possibility but as of now things should surely be coming under control or at least be stable. IF there is a second earthquake then the **** could quite easily hit the fan.
Click to expand...

Obviously you can take it to extremes and your right aslong as things continue as they are it will be pretty much as per his article, but given the severity of the event and the frequent and severe aftershocks and that in that region of the world its not impossible for another huge quake or even another tsunami at any time so to rule it out so absolutely seems foolish at best, granted once a BWR has sucessfully SCRAMed the chances are significantly smaller of any large fallout but still not impossible.
 
Last edited:
Jonnycoupe said:
Are you sure they are not just discharging it back into the sea?
Click to expand...

I would be almost certain its not, it will be marginally radioactive at the least, by design the water in the core is partially radioactive. Meaning they couldn't just chuck it in the sea, I'm not sure theres an easy way for them to do it, plus, the water will be turning to steam so if they were chucking it out I'd think they'd be continuing the venting.

Its just something I've not seen covered yet in the news at all.

If you just continue pumping water in, and its turning into steam, and nothings escaping....... well, theres a point where you can't add anymore, or they have to be removing/exchanging the water/steam somehow.
 
drunkenmaster said:
If you just continue pumping water in, and its turning into steam, and nothings escaping....... well, theres a point where you can't add anymore, or they have to be removing/exchanging the water/steam somehow.
Click to expand...

Remember seawater is ~3.5% salt, evaporating large qualities in the reactors deposits large amounts of salt, reducing the cooling efficiency.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I would be almost certain its not, it will be marginally radioactive at the least, by design the water in the core is partially radioactive. Meaning they couldn't just chuck it in the sea, I'm not sure theres an easy way for them to do it, plus, the water will be turning to steam so if they were chucking it out I'd think they'd be continuing the venting..
Click to expand...

I know... Ive been saying about coolant activation in most of the thread. Did I need to add a big flashy signature for you to be able to remember the posts from users and their salient points?

The fact it terms into steam is how the steam raising plant works, particularly in a BWR where the reactor is the Steam generator... it doesnt necceisarily have to vent to atmosphere.

In terms of ALARP sea water discharge may well is better than popping the plant and melting the core....

I made the point about activation, and by design coolant activation is minimised.

They could have course have the condensing system fully running and hence need to pump the seat water through that such that the primary circuit doent have seawater in..... but no reports have said that, all are stating seawater into the reactor.
 
clv101 said:
Drunkenmaster certainly doesn't know any more about nuclear power than he does about managing Arsenal.



Decay heat is only 7% in the very instant (tiny fraction of a second) after a fission reaction. In the normal running of a reactor, it contributes around 7% of the total heat. The reactors haven't been running for days though, hence the decay by now to around 0.3%.

I said heat output of a bit over 1000MW. The numbers you are talking about (460, 784) are electrical output. Heat output is 2.5-3 times that.
Click to expand...

FIrstly, seeing as everything I suggest about Arsenal, who we'll lose to, weak points, which players will cost us all seem to come true, and seeing as I've not been installed as manager and failed, you can't actually say I'd be a bad manager.

Secondly, hmm, why did reactor core 2 for instance only this morning manage to drop water levels so fast if the heat output should be circa 0.5-1% after a couple of days, doesn't that indicate something is heating the water up a lot more rapidly, they had been pumping in sea water until the pump ran out of fuel, then it apparently dropped quite quickly
 
Jonnycoupe said:
I know... Ive been saying about coolant activation in most of the thread. Did I need to add a big flashy signature for you to be able to remember the posts from users and their salient points?

The fact it terms into steam is how the steam raising plant works, particularly in a BWR where the reactor is the Steam generator... it doesnt necceisarily have to vent to atmosphere.

In terms of ALARP sea water discharge may well is better than popping the plant and melting the core....

I made the point about activation, and by design coolant activation is minimised.

They could have course have the condensing system fully running and hence need to pump the seat water through that such that the primary circuit doent have seawater in..... but no reports have said that, all are stating seawater into the reactor.
Click to expand...


I really don't know, supposedly the rods are damaged in the core meaning there could be much more than just minimally radioactive water in there, also with sea water theres a lot more things that can be made radioactive afaik, meaning it becomes less safe.

I'm also not sure they would easily be designed for removal of water from the core frankly, steam can be vented, water they'd need to, I don't even know. They are pretty much designed to not have water removed aren't they, likewise the steam is the greatest problem, water can still cool, steam reducing cooling efficiency and creates the dangerous pressure removing steam to add water makes a lot more sense and apparently is something they've done so far, venting before the roof blew off, and adding water afterwards.

As for talking about coolant activation for most of the thread, other than one comment which I didn't really see, followed closely by a question suggesting you might not know that, I can't see more posts for a few pages back.

That on top of 2 hours sleep, tooth pain, knee pain, being high on codeine and playing a game on the other screen, and I still can't see where my post accused you of being retarded but thats just me. I was just saying I didn't think they would risk contamination as the water inside could have quite a few nasty things in it.
 
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday fuel rods were fully exposed again in the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant as of 11 p.m.

TEPCO said a steam vent of the pressure container of the reactor that houses the rods was closed for some reason, leading to a sudden drop in water levels inside the reactor.
Click to expand...
 
drunkenmaster said:
Secondly, hmm, why did reactor core 2 for instance only this morning manage to drop water levels so fast if the heat output should be circa 0.5-1% after a couple of days, doesn't that indicate something is heating the water up a lot more rapidly, they had been pumping in sea water until the pump ran out of fuel, then it apparently dropped quite quickly
Click to expand...

The fact is that decay heat will be around 0.3% of the thermal capacity by now, assuming, as I said above, the rods aren't damaged yet. In the case of reactor two, its electrical output of 784MW converts to a thermal output of around 2200 MW. 0.3% of that leaves 6.6 MW to cool. The latent heat of vaporization of water is 2.5 MJ/kg so, we're evaporating 2.6 litres per second or 9.5 tonnes of water per hour (9.5 cubic metres per hour).

That's how, with only a decay heat of 0.3%, water levels can drop fast.

If there's damage to the rods, there may be some uranium fission going on (with it's 7% decay heat), greatly increasing the temperature.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I really don't know, supposedly the rods are damaged in the core meaning there could be much more than just minimally radioactive water in there, also with sea water theres a lot more things that can be made radioactive afaik, meaning it becomes less safe.
Click to expand...

Where do you think the water is currently going considering the level keeps dropping below the fuel rods?....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom