Is everything we do for selfish reasons?

[Surfer]

Someone at work says everything anyone ever does is purely selfish.

Me 'I hung out the washing for my missus'
Him 'So she didn't rollock' you - selfish'

'I cooked her dinner'
'Only coz you want her to like you more - selfish'

'I give money to charity'
'So you can tell people like me you do, to big yourself up - selfish'

'I anonymously give money to charity'
'So you can think you're oh-so-great - not just to help the starving donkeys of Greece. Selfish'

'My brother had 'the sword of cackness' on WOW, I gave him my 'sword of whoppingness' for free'
'So you could have a better raid, so YOU could have more fun .. selfish'


AAARRRGGHH! Do you think everything everyone does is basically for purely selfish reasons? It kind of makes me miserable -- but everything I say to my mate .. he really does believe I do just to somehow make myself feel better and always manages to twist it back to that horrible word 'selfish' ... :/

What thinks you?

Theres an expression.... what Peter says about Paul tells you more about Peter than it does about Paul.

Does he know your mind-state? Nope. His reasons only tell you HOW he thinks not how YOU think.

Its perfectly possible (and anal) to give a "selfish" reason for every single possible altruistic action on the planet. Tells us nothing at all.....

'I anonymously give money to charity'
'So you can think you're oh-so-great - not just to help the starving donkeys of Greece. Selfish'

Hrmm...flaw in his logic here. On the one hand he denies the altruistic act but on the other he still wants to entertain the possibility of Altruism theoretically.

Not entirely sure which logical fallacy he commits here though. But he does commit one.

I'm sure someone else could break it down better for you but theres a lot of holes in his statement.

If i was sharper and more on my A game... i'd be able to do a diagram for you that would show you the logical uhh "Existence state" of the concept (Altruism) based on his proposition and it would be much easier to see why its incorrect what he is saying. (a picture/diagram paints a thousands words as they say)

 

[singist]

Some people should stop trying to justify their own selfish acts by dissing others who just try to help or be nice.

This country is in the state it is because of all the I want, I deserve, I'm entitled brigade; life would be so much more enjoyable if we all spent a little of our time helping others or just trying to make someone a little happier.

 

[Haggisman]

Some people should stop trying to justify their own selfish acts by dissing others who just try to help or be nice.

This country is in the state it is because of all the I want, I deserve, I'm entitled brigade; life would be so much more enjoyable if we all spent a little of our time helping others or just trying to make someone a little happier.

So you want everyone else to start helping others just so your life is more enjoyable?

That's really selfish!

 

[gropingmantis]

Some people should stop trying to justify their own selfish acts by dissing others who just try to help or be nice.

This country is in the state it is because of all the I want, I deserve, I'm entitled brigade; life would be so much more enjoyable if we all spent a little of our time helping others or just trying to make someone a little happier.

Ah communisim? Oh wait that only works on a small scale. Its human nature to do things to benefit yourself. If people only ever performed altruistic acts the world would be as screwed if not more so than with some selfish acts.

All I said is that I don't believe that there is such a thing as altruism NOT I believe that all acts are selfish. These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

 

[The Running Man]

Actions are mostly to benefit the 'self' or what i would call, the 'collective self' which is usually made up of immediate family, then a weaker resonance with friends and wider family...

Not to say you would always be selfish and purposely do things that would hurt others, or give them less impact. But you do them for your own gain, often with little thought of how it might impact another person.

Simple one, someone has a job, but they decide they want a new job elsewhere. Yet there are millions of unemployed. If you go for another job, its not selfish per se, but if you get the job and a jobless person doesnt well, its hardly a nice thing to do is it?

Your existing employer will be out of an employee and might have to re recruit, at significant cost. And the person who didnt get the job you took might continue to live a somewhat impoverished life on benefits earning much less than you did before and after you changed jobs.

But thats career progression, its almost expected in a way that you will do that. ou didnt take the job to spite the other person, you probably didnt even consider the situation of the other candidate.

But without knowing the potential plight of the other person, can you be selfish or are you just being altruistic?

At the end of the day, resources are finite. Poeple want the best for themselves and their family. Im not saying they will shoot someone if they dont get what is best, but just taking the opportunity away from them may not be far off doing so.

confusing:?

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Someone at work says everything anyone ever does is purely selfish.

Me 'I hung out the washing for my missus'
Him 'So she didn't rollock' you - selfish'

'I cooked her dinner'
'Only coz you want her to like you more - selfish'

'I give money to charity'
'So you can tell people like me you do, to big yourself up - selfish'

'I anonymously give money to charity'
'So you can think you're oh-so-great - not just to help the starving donkeys of Greece. Selfish'

'My brother had 'the sword of cackness' on WOW, I gave him my 'sword of whoppingness' for free'
'So you could have a better raid, so YOU could have more fun .. selfish'


AAARRRGGHH! Do you think everything everyone does is basically for purely selfish reasons? It kind of makes me miserable -- but everything I say to my mate .. he really does believe I do just to somehow make myself feel better and always manages to twist it back to that horrible word 'selfish' ... :/

What thinks you?

Your friend is an idiot. You could just as easily argue all of those points are selfless rather than selfish. Not everyone thinks nor acts like your friend, thank God.

 

[aln]

Your friend is an idiot. You could just as easily argue all of those points are selfless rather than selfish. Not everyone thinks nor acts like your friend, thank God.

Starting your reply with an insult doesn't make you more right, if anything it weakens your already weak argument.

@OP - Your wife being happy will make you happy. Anything you do to please her is purely for selfish reasons, and theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I don't think that everything everyone does is for selfish reasons, but I'd say it plays a part in almost everything everyone does, even if the only self satisfaction is gained.

 

[rypt]

I do things for only 3 reasons

Money, Sex or Fun

In that order since both Sex and Money are inherently fun, and Money gets you Sex anyway

 

[Al Vallario]

I'm impressed this thread has reached three pages without a single mention of the debate in question; psychological egoism is the term.

It's a very difficult hypothesis to disprove given that almost all actions can, depending on your chosen account of desire, be related no matter how indirectly to an individual's self-interest and the satisfaction of their desires.

On that note, however, Joel Feinberg (as referenced in the wikipedia article) proposed the hypothesis has an infinite regress, a la:

"All men desire only satisfaction."
"Satisfaction of what?"
"Satisfaction of their desires."
"Their desires for what?"
"Their desires for satisfaction."
"Satisfaction of what?"
"Their desires."
"For what?"
"For satisfaction"—etc., ad infinitum.

In my view the strongest counterexample to the hypothesis would draw on the distinction between one's desires and one's self-regarding desires. The perfect counterexample would be a case in which an action can be demonstrated to be entirely other-regarding, resulting in no conceivable satisfaction of an individual's own self-regarding desires.

I think there's merit in examples of self-sacrifice such as those soldiers who have thrown themselves on grenades to save their comrades. Although difficult to discredit, I would question the validity of possible self-interest — satisfaction of the desire to be perceived as a hero, etc. — given that they concern desires the individual can never know they have realised.

 

[Pudney]

I think there's merit in examples of self-sacrifice such as those soldiers who have thrown themselves on grenades to save their comrades. Although difficult to discredit, I would question the validity of possible self-interest — satisfaction of the desire to be perceived as a hero, etc. — given that they concern desires the individual can never know they have realised.

Which is entirely my view as well. The only good reason I've seen to explain self-sacrifice in this thread is that to preserve your genes, the rest are a stretch to say the least.

 

[vicisthebest]

Interesting story I saw on Sky News today which made me think of this thread which I read a couple of days ago.

They were talking about Japan, and a group of 50 people who are currently working in the stricken nuclear power station to try and keep the radiation at bay as much as they can, even though it means almost certain death for them. 5 of them have died already.

I have to say I consider that to be as close to a selfless good deed as you can get. What are they going to get out of it for themselves?

They then talked about it being reminiscent of the Chernobyl disaster, where:

"Three men volunteered to swim to their deaths to save Russia from being obliterated. Engineer Alexei Ananenko and soldiers Valeri Bezpalov and Boris Baranov suited up in scuba gear and swam through the radioactive waters of the flooded chamber to release the gate valve and allow the trapped water to drain out."

I can't imagine how much strength it takes to be able to give your life to save others, I think people who rescue people from burning buildings, fight in wars, etc, obviously always put themselves at risk but can love the adrenaline rush of being in that situation. But going in KNOWING that you ARE going to die if you do it... I wonder how people prepare themselves for that?

 

[steve-h]

i went and helped my bro move stuff in his house despite having a rank hangover.

i did that for no other reason than he is my twin brother and he asked for help.

Probably made yourself feel better about yourself, and he now owes you.

 

[THMRK]

Quoted in case you missed it.

Glad you said it. A lot of this kind of argument (philosophically at least) centre's around the semantic details of defining what selfish is and isn't. Until that's defined, it's a discussion that goes no where pretty quickly.

 

[manic_man]

Glass can be either half full or half empty.

in some ways, he is correct, in others you are correct, how you chose to interpret the situation reflects your personality.

If it helps, in my experience, people with a positive outlook on things tend to be happier people on the whole.

 

[Narj]

I give to charity every month because I want to feel like I'm helping out the causes close to my heart, while at the same time not having to lift a finger or give up any of my spare time. That's selfish, I suppose.

 

[Inquizitor]

Getting something out of being nice does not make it selfish.

 

[gropingmantis]

Getting something out of being nice does not make it selfish.

No but it doesn't make it Altruistic either.

I think what happened was that his friend heard someone say that there is no such thing as altruism and kind of got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[alexakasloth]

This.

Seems that your 'Friend' likes arguing for the sake of it.

If you do something nice for somebody, you are doing it because YOU want to, not because what the other person might think of you for doing it.

Exactly, self satisfaction is not always a selfish act, it depends on the context and reasoning.

 

[steve-h]

This comes to mind: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12779510