Poll: DELETED_74993

Were we right to get involved in Libya?

  • Yes

    Votes: 306 50.9%

  • No

    Votes: 295 49.1%
  • Total voters
    601
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Nix said:
They are civilians that have resorted to taking up arms when means of peaceful protest failed. They are the Libyian people and they want change. Gaddafi has no right to bomb them.

There's plenty of news footage around if you bother to look of aircraft flying low and bombing the rebels. It is happening.

Also, less of the poxy rolleyes.
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no one is doubting aircraft bombing rebels..
so what is peaceful protest failed they dont have the write to bring there country into civil war, its not like they are even the majority or you would see a lot more rebels when in reality there isnt many of them.
 
BTW, it's a shame we only have one aircraft carrier now isn't it? HMS Illustrious equipped only with helicopters these days I believe. So where are our Tornadoes going to be based? Sicily? Realistically how effective are Tornadoes going to be flying from Sicily to Libya to enforce a no-fly zone? All I'll say is thank goodness for the French who still have the capability to do this.
 
scorza said:
BTW, it's a shame we only have one aircraft carrier now isn't it? HMS Illustrious equipped only with helicopters these days I believe. So where are our Tornadoes going to be based? Sicily? Realistically how effective are Tornadoes going to be flying from Sicily to Libya to enforce a no-fly zone? All I'll say is thank goodness for the French who still have the capability to do this.
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Tornados takeoff and land from carriers do they?
 
scorza said:
BTW, it's a shame we only have one aircraft carrier now isn't it? HMS Illustrious equipped only with helicopters these days I believe. So where are our Tornadoes going to be based? Sicily? Realistically how effective are Tornadoes going to be flying from Sicily to Libya to enforce a no-fly zone? All I'll say is thank goodness for the French who still have the capability to do this.
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How would a Tornado take off from our aircraft carrier?

But i do agree, i'm just not sure how effective a Harrier would be if it came up against a few enemy fighters.
 
deko said:
Another excuse to murder a bunch of shepherds and get soldiers killed, in a country that has nothing to do with us, apart from oil. Sound familiar?

This makes me sound a little cruel, but what about the constant civil wars going on in Africa and South America that we just ignore?
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I get fed up of people sat on the internet whining about wars because of oil. THEN, those very people switch on their tv's, put on their clothes, cook their food, go out in their cars and generally live a comfortable life - ALL FUELLED BY OIL
 
Firestar_3x said:
But i do agree, i'm just not sure how effective a Harrier would be if it came up against a few enemy fighters.
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They seemed to do perfectly well last time :p

Granted, the Sea Harrier was retired a while ago, so our carriers really were only strike-carriers, but top cover from land based Typhoons or USAF jets isnt unfeasible?
 
arknor said:
no one is doubting aircraft bombing rebels..
so what is peaceful protest failed they dont have the write to bring there country into civil war, its not like they are even the majority or you would see a lot more rebels when in reality there isnt many of them.
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Civil wars happen. All states have a civil war at one point or another on their point to modernity.

This civil war broke out quite simply because Gaddafi is unable and far too delusional to accept the will of his people for change. Rather than step down (e.g. Egypt), he decides to try to brutally crush any resistance and to maintain the status quo which suits him, not his people. Those who are mainly fighting back are defectors who have nowhere else to go. Waiting for the inevitable is just as bad, so they fight. The 'majority' you speak of are probably too afraid to be on the receiving end of a modern army when you have only rocks to defend yourself with. It's a no-brainer why there isn't swathes of people; the Libyans knew they were on their own and in a losing war of attrition. Chances are you'll see more people come out of the woodworks now the resolution has been passed and even more when the first plane gets shot down.
 
I think you'll see the French Carrier, followed by 2 US carier groups and British fighters from cyprus (although they haven't given permission yet). Interestingly the US carrier in the region was sailing away from Libya as of this morning (sky news) so I don't see how things can be done quickly.
 
RAF Akrotiri is around 1,000 miles from Libya? Even with mid air refuling i wonder how much time that will give them over Libyan airspace?

Think the GR4 will do 2,000 miles with the drop tanks, and its good for 500 - 800 miles in combat trim?
 
Guess we need the likes of the UAE to give us a hand. How embarassing we can't do this on our own anymore with carriers.
 
Tim said:
sorry for the noob questions but why is this? don't they accelerate fast enough? or don't our aircraft carriers have ramps?
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Our aircraft carriers are diddy, designed for use by VTOL aircraft, aka the Sea Harrier which has now been ditched even in land base form.

The GR4 needs a longer runway than something like the Harrier cause it doesn't have the ability for VTOL aka can't vector it's thrust.

AFAIK even if the french give us access to a carrier we can't use any of the land based fighters to launch or land off them, since they simply aren't designed for the extra punishment a carrier landing puts on the fuselage / landing gear (plus they have no arrestor hooks fitted).

The only thing we could launch from sea (other than missiles) which could be of major use is the Apache?
 
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Tim said:
sorry for the noob questions but why is this? don't they accelerate fast enough? or don't our aircraft carriers have ramps?
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Our carriers do (did) not have the catapult launch systems or arrestor cables required to launch conventional aircraft.

Also, the aircraft itself is not carrier capable. Carrier borne aircraft have stronger landing gear than land based aircraft to cope with the stresses of carrier landings, in addition they have systems on the nose gear to connect to the catapult as well as and arrestor hook with which the aircraft catches the arrestor cable on the deck in order to stop.

None of air aircraft since the late 1970's have had these capabilities.

Also, the RAF Harrier GR9s that were recently retired were close air support aircraft, and not fighters/strike aircraft like the Typhoon and Tornado respectively. Different aircraft with different roles, and given the current situation the Harrier GR9s role would not have been required for the Libyan no fly zone.
 
Cool thanks:)

I edited my post to make it sound a little less stupid after realising it must have a ramp, but meh, too slow:o I knew the Tornado didn't VTOL:p
 
Firestar_3x said:
The only thing we could launch from sea (other than missiles) which could be of major use is the Apache?
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And we have our own helicopter carrier / assault ships for this, which somewhat makes 'borrowing' a French carrier a moot point.

Cracking defence reviews chaps in Whitehall, keep up the good work what ho?
 
matt_fsr said:
And we have our own helicopter carrier / assault ships for this, which somewhat makes 'borrowing' a French carrier a moot point.

Cracking defence reviews chaps in Whitehall, keep up the good work what ho?
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It's made me major rage again......

Without a carrier and more importantly carrier compatible aircraft we have a massive shortfall in our ability of waging war in distant theatres of operation.

I can see why they've decided to take a little bit of pain now for the greater good later, but still, good job we have so many countrys which are pro uk and happy for us to either have a base or use bases around the world.
 
Tim said:
Wouldn't this be an easy target?:o
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If it was, the Afghans would have shot one down by now - they've been after taking out a 'Mosquito' (as they call them) ever since they arrived in theatre!

Granted, the Afghans dont have ZSU-23/4 systems, but most Apache's wouldn't try and take one of those on!
 
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