Inset Days
- Thread starter Castiel
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If I were the Principle that would be something I would not be too happy about.
It means others are picking up the slack unfairly.
It must really wind you up. I'm not sure that I would be able to keep it to myself in the Staff-Room either.
And there's the crux of your argument. You have a total lack of respect for the job that teachers do.
Bus driving is a harder job than teaching? Perhaps you should spend a day in a secondary school in Hackney before saying that.
There's a strong correlation between the respect a country has for its teachers and where it is on the education league table. In Japan, teachers are the equals of doctors.
The hours you work, is that through choice of necessity? I never stated that I think you have 24 days holiday, I have no idea what you do or how much you get, my reference was to joe average. At the end of the day, all jobs have their 'perks' - this is one of theirs. And when you consider the amount of hours a lot of teachers put in, maybe it isn't so unfair after all...
This is a very good point. Unfortunately, I don't think this opinion is uncommon. Lots of parents out there have no idea how hard most teachers work, and this in itself can make their job a lot harder.
As for comparing a bus driver to a teacher, madness!
You could be equally said to have a complete lack of respect for the job Bus Drivers do, perhaps you should spend a day driving the night-shift through Hackney?
It was merely an illustration of the job the average person does, (in reply to the accusation that teachers work harder and longer than average people) and not a direct comparison, hence the word "arguably" in the post. It has absolutely nothing to do with respect or how I perceive teaching.
Having spent several days giving talks in my Sons school, I am fully aware of the issues facing Teaching Staff and the inherent disrespect they have to put up with from Students and some Parents. This, however has nothing to do with inset days and is only being used to deflect, somewhat disingenuously.
In Japan teachers are required to give 220 teaching days and do not receive 13 weeks holiday but 7, the same entitlement as anyone else. Kinda shoots you down a little.
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Why is it madness?
Is being a bus driver deserving of less respect than teaching?
Is their job less difficult? are the hours less onerous? are the dangers of assault and verbal abuse any less?
Seems to me that you look down on other occupations without consideration or knowledge of what they do.
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The primary school teacher you know, how do you know she doesn't need to work these hours? Just because she doesn't choose too, doesn't mean that she doesn't need too.
As for the teaching union statistics, I can assure you that the teachers I know work more then that - and because of this perform a lot better then other teachers out there. Maybe, just maybe, the teachers who work the 51 or less hours are the ones who are doing the lower quality of job which is contributing to the poor performance of our education system. Maybe, just maybe, the teachers NEED to work 70/80 hours a week just to be in a position to provide a quality level of teaching!
As for lunches not being work hours, you will find that most teachers don't get lunch hours and find themselves doing work related activities in this time.
Soldato
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Whole heartily agree with EVERY one of Raymond’s points, Inset days are a pain and cause unnecessary disruption to parents that work who also have stressful and negative points to their jobs.
Wow, this obviously bites some people.
I have left a job (in electronic engineering) where I was steadily earning more every year, working 9-5, all evenings and weekends free, and I took 6 weeks off per year (I sacrificed some salary to 'buy' days 26-30).
I left this to begin training to teach where OK I may get 12 weeks off, but currently I'm working 7:30am until about 7pm with sometimes a little extra at home in the evenings. Yes, I'm in training and so haven't yet become efficient - however I'm only teaching about 1/2 the hours I will as a proper teacher, where I will get paid rather less than I was as an engineer.
As half-term and Easter hols approach, people start falling ill - coughs and sneezes and very obvious 'flu in one case (he was suffering body and head aches, streaming red eyes, snots and sneezes, cold sweats/hot flushes and an inability to concentrate) - but these teachers keep coming in because they can't let their classes down.
One teacher went to hospital with a kidney problem and was then signed off for the following week to rest at home - she didn't, she came into work instead. This is stupid, but it'll mitigate the mountain of catching-up she'd otherwise have needed to do after the two weeks off. Especially now - all the GCSE/A-Level classes are working towards finishing the syllabi before revision time, then exams.
Some teachers may be slackers - OR they're very efficient during the day and get all the unavoidable work done so they can get home early, or they work at home in front of the telly.
But they do it because they are caring for you, your children or your future children - you'd be surprised how much conversation is had about the welfare and learning of individual pupils.
It's a tough job. Imagine performing for all of the working day, every day - and not just performing, making sure your enire audience has paid attention and learned something - and not just an audience but a bunch of young people with short attention-spans who didn't choose to be there.
I have left a job (in electronic engineering) where I was steadily earning more every year, working 9-5, all evenings and weekends free, and I took 6 weeks off per year (I sacrificed some salary to 'buy' days 26-30).
I left this to begin training to teach where OK I may get 12 weeks off, but currently I'm working 7:30am until about 7pm with sometimes a little extra at home in the evenings. Yes, I'm in training and so haven't yet become efficient - however I'm only teaching about 1/2 the hours I will as a proper teacher, where I will get paid rather less than I was as an engineer.
As half-term and Easter hols approach, people start falling ill - coughs and sneezes and very obvious 'flu in one case (he was suffering body and head aches, streaming red eyes, snots and sneezes, cold sweats/hot flushes and an inability to concentrate) - but these teachers keep coming in because they can't let their classes down.
One teacher went to hospital with a kidney problem and was then signed off for the following week to rest at home - she didn't, she came into work instead. This is stupid, but it'll mitigate the mountain of catching-up she'd otherwise have needed to do after the two weeks off. Especially now - all the GCSE/A-Level classes are working towards finishing the syllabi before revision time, then exams.
Some teachers may be slackers - OR they're very efficient during the day and get all the unavoidable work done so they can get home early, or they work at home in front of the telly.
But they do it because they are caring for you, your children or your future children - you'd be surprised how much conversation is had about the welfare and learning of individual pupils.
It's a tough job. Imagine performing for all of the working day, every day - and not just performing, making sure your enire audience has paid attention and learned something - and not just an audience but a bunch of young people with short attention-spans who didn't choose to be there.
Caporegime
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Nobody is debating how hard working they are. Nobody.
But to think they work harder or longer hours than all other profession is an image i get when a teacher is talking. They talks like no one else work longer, harder, or has a more difficult or more stressful job than they do.
That is simply not true.
Soldato
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I would guess the majority of the employed here reading that statement don't need to imagine, they are already doing it or would otherwise find themselves without a job.
I don't really get the problem with the long holidays. It is part of the benefit package, the same as any other job. I don't really see the need for a 6 week holiday to get over stress, but if they had shorter holidays they would presumably want paying more. Whether children would benefit from shorter holidays is another matter.
I think it makes sense to have training during the working segment of the year so that what you are learning is put straight into use rather than being forgotten whilst you laze about on a beach.
I think it makes sense to have training during the working segment of the year so that what you are learning is put straight into use rather than being forgotten whilst you laze about on a beach.
Research by the NUT also disputes what you are stating about the average working hours of Teachers:
http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/Work-Time-A5-Update20-12_0.pdf
Neither You or any of the other teachers here have made mention of the 10% PPA time you also get in which to plan and prepare. That is 10% of your teaching time, not that you are expected to do additional 10% more hours.
http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/PPA_207sq (3996).pdf
However, no-one is disputing that Teachers put in more hours than they are contracted to, what we are saying is that Teachers are not unique in this and the average working week of a teacher is comparable to the average working week nationally which is 45hrs across all occupations and is significantly less than many other professional occupations with comparable remuneration (if not the holiday entitlement).
Man of Honour
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I don't think sara means performing as in doing a job but performing as in putting on a performance - a good teacher is often akin to an actor in some ways, on stage putting on a show to the audience trying to keep them engaged, following the story, responding appropriately and having gained something from seeing it. While I might be constantly working during every day to be under constant scrutiny is something slightly different.
Generally speaking I don't think teaching gets the respect it deserves, that's not to denigrate other occupations but we as a society have said "these are the people we'd like to educate our future generations and this is broadly the way we'd like it done" and we then often don't seem to support teachers when they do it. Education is of huge importance, that's not to say for a second that there aren't bad teachers, that we couldn't do things better or anything else, it's simply noting the point that if education is of such importance (and it seems fairly incontrovertible to me) then we should be willing to show the necessary respect for those who elect to do it.
Some do, I know. Some have never left academia and don't know any better.
I think I was just trying to say they often need their holiday quite a lot by the time it rolls round. They'd burn out, otherwise. Then they'd be no use at all.
Yes, that's the kind of performance I meant.
An actor on stage is generally playing to people who want to be there and have paid to enjoy it - classes of teenagers are rather different.
I also really appreciate what you said in the second part of your post.
I think - yes of course other jobs are harder, in different ways - but if as a country we value the education given to our kids, we need to value the people working to provide it.
I couldn't manage this PGCE if I didn't REALLY want to teach and make a difference - it's been a huge emotional rollercoaster of self-doubt, I knew it'd be a lot of work but my goodness it's hard not to think yourself a failure when suddenly half the class is going "I just don't get it!" "What's the point?" "What /is/ refraction anyway?" after 6 weeks on the topic (TBH, they'd just had enough of it... applying it to the lenses in our own eyes has helped them get used to the idea)...
I am not a teacher, therefore my views are somewhat subjective. My views however, are based on real world experience, not statistics. I can only comment on the difference that someone I know, who puts in the hours I have indicated, has upon school. I have also seen evidence to suggest, that if these hours were not put in, the quality of teaching provided to the children would decrease.
I work in a standard job, doing 40 hours per week. My jobs ends when I get home. This is true of a lot of people I know, some earn the same, if not more, then teachers do. I agree that there are occupations out there who which also requires people to work stupid hours, however, I'm not entirely sure this is the norm.
That is fair enough, my opinion is based on a mixture of experience, both personal and vicariously through those teachers than I know and the statistics from various sources including the Teaching Unions themselves.
I used bus drivers as an example of the average workers because I know the industry and it is more relevant than the Royal Navy which is my only other work experience. The average working week of a Driver is about 50 hours. they are contracted for 42 work hours and when you add booking time, unpaid/paid breaks that comes to about 50 hours on average (not including travelling to and from work or the need for doing the CPC regularly, sometimes in their own time and at their own expense).
I think you'll agree that driving a bus is an average occupation or is at least indicative of one.
I am not disputing that teachers work long hours or that they deserve more respect than they currently seem to get, especially from the students they teach, however this doesn't detract from the issue of the Inset days and that moving them (with the relevant compensation to salaries) would benefit both the students and Parents. Whether it would benefit Teachers is up to the individual to decide.
I am aware of the arguments put forward by various people, which is why I changed my opinion of compensation for the loss of the 13th week.