Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3: Are RPGs Evolving or Dying?

[Phinor]

I wouldn't say RPGs are dying as such, just that some mainstream developers are moving their products from RPGs to action adventures. Mass Effect 2 wasn't a proper RPG in my books but then neither was the original Mass Effect. Both games were excellent story-oriented action games with very light RPG elements, though.

Now Dragon Age 2 is a different story. DA:O was a great epic RPG. Dragon Age 2 got rid of the epic and RPG parts. Losing the epic part isn't necessarily bad and there were some RPG elements still, but for example exploration, a huge element in proper RPG games, was almost completely missing from the game due to recycling. Clearing the same cave for the 17th time, knowing pretty much all the points where enemies spawn is pretty damn dull.

Some developers are going for less epic, less content, less everything except more and faster action. Or as I said, they are changing their games from RPG into action games with story. Action adventures, however you want to call it. But I wouldn't call them proper RPGs anymore.

 

[bushmins]

RPG are going underground. Made by indepandant writers who make games for people that like real RPGs. Real RPG’er are people who don’t give a toss about the latest graphics. They are people who want depth of story line, massive maps and shed loads of charactor customisation.
Big walls of text? Bring em on!
Invntory bags that can only hold certain amount of weight and every item has a size? Bring it on!
Building characters that rely on reading a 300 page manual to make? BRING IT ON!
DIEING MEANS LOOSING A LEVEL? Hell yeh!

Need to mine for titanium dust to cast a fireball? Thats what alts are for!

 

[melipone1]

Some developers are going for less epic, less content, less everything except more and faster action. Or as I said, they are changing their games from RPG into action games with story. Action adventures, however you want to call it. But I wouldn't call them proper RPGs anymore.

Hopefully with the amount of RPG's coming out there will be room for more "real" RPG's too as the audience gets larger. I think developers are trying to make RPG's for FPS/action game fans tho, rather than RPG's for RPG fans. I mean people who play WoW aren't necessarily RPG fans, they just like progressing a character and killing stuff while taking part in some kind of story, and get hooked to the constant rewards (drops, levels etc). The staples of RPG games aren't really there tho. The latest single player RPG's are going for this audience - cherry picking the RPG bits that work for that audience and dropping the real core RPG stuff.

There's very little player choice involved nowadays. Either with the story or dialogue options (Mass Effect is a joke with this..you basically get a "goodie", "evil dude" or "abstain from an opinion, just let me exit dialogue asap so I can shoot stuff", then get some meaningless points, and you don't even need to think about your choices - its top, middle or bottom and its pretty much the same result every time. Theres no real choice with your character, especially in Mass Effect 2 - you just make some bits stronger but have access to everything possible. Gear just upgrades with no choices to make at all as you have virtually limitless supplies of the materials to upgrade with and no limits. No side grades, no unique items, hardly any armour at all. The only decent RPG elements in these games is theres tons of lore you can access ingame and the story is a main focus of the game.

The games treat you like you need someone telling you what to do all the time, or even what your character is thinking when you're supposed to have made a unique character yourself with his own decisions to make (Oblivion is so bad with this, popups telling me what my character is thinking, what to do next, how to do it, pointing me towards the baddies..its not a real RPG game to me). Skyrim will be more of the same rubbish imo. They break immersion at every opportunity, be it a main story that basically renders all side quests obsolete (kill some rats in a cellar for someone, or stop an invasion from hell? Morrowind simply gave you a general goal but didn't force it on you like its an FPS game mission to race through). Immersion and player choice takes a backseat to dumbed down action and constant rewards without challenge in these modern "RPG light" action games.

Bethesda don't make RPG's anymore imo, not since Morrowind. They are action adventure games with tacked on character development. Theres nothing wrong with these games on their own merits, I just don't like how they attempt to sell them to RPG fans as RPGs, while they know their core audience is console gamers who just want to be pointed towards the next bad guys while being told a half baked story about goodies, baddies and how you have to save the world.

I had given up on new "real" RPG's until I played Dragon Age:Origins, but it seems we're going backwards again. Again I should point out I know that all these games can be enjoyable in their own rights, and you don't have to be a "console kid" to have fun with them and I don't mean to be rude about that. I am just looking for something more when it comes to games billed as RPG's, especially from companies that are supposed to be the leaders in the field. I can enjoy them as action adventures tho ofc, theres just a huge lack of quality real RPG's around nowadays because they are targetting mostly console audiences.

 

[Ozzie Dave]

RPGs are not dying at all. There has been many deep/traditional RPGs released in the last few years and we have a few good ones coming this year. Albeit from smaller studios/Indies, but so what?... if it hits the spot it's all good.

As for evolving, well big studios are chasing the big bucks and it's all about action these days, catering for short attention spans etc, so it does not surprise me they are turning them into action/adventures. They call them RPGs only because it's a cool buzzword/flavour of the month right now....and to also hoodwink those that might prefer more traditional RPGs into buying them.

Yeah, a game is just a game, getting all worked up over the correct definiton of genres' is a bit anal but for those that have distinct likes it makes things more clear. That is the big issue I have with companies like EA etc....they muddy the waters and call just about anything an RPG even if it's no more than a corridor action shooter with guns/swords...

The only big developer I can tolerate these days is Bethesda. Although they are now making games that cater more to the action market than with traditional RPGs they do give us the modding tools to fix things how we like. Oblivion doesn't need dozens/hundreds of mods to fix things for me....only 3, UI (Darn), more challenge and no level scaling (OOO), better char leveling (used a few) -> Done. Turns it from being (imo) a mediocre game into a reasonably decent one. Hence, I will be getting Skyrim, even if it does take 6 months or so after release for myself and other modders to sort all the crap out

 

[bhavv]

RPGs are not dying at all. There has been many deep/traditional RPGs released in the last few years and we have a few good ones coming this year. Albeit from smaller studios/Indies, but so what?... if it hits the spot it's all good.

Which ones? I'd like to know because I cant find enough.

RPG are going underground. Made by indepandant writers who make games for people that like real RPGs. Real RPG’er are people who don’t give a toss about the latest graphics. They are people who want depth of story line, massive maps and shed loads of charactor customisation.
Big walls of text? Bring em on!
Invntory bags that can only hold certain amount of weight and every item has a size? Bring it on!
Building characters that rely on reading a 300 page manual to make? BRING IT ON!
DIEING MEANS LOOSING A LEVEL? Hell yeh!

Need to mine for titanium dust to cast a fireball? Thats what alts are for!

Dont forget about tactical combat too . 300 page manuals with supplementing spreadsheats and databases for my RPGS ...... GIMMEH!!!!

 

[Psymonkee]

I think the end is in sight for the traditional RPG and with good reason.

Constant pausing and micro managing strategy doesn't really make a good game. Games are largely about interaction (preferably) in real time with the game world and the RPG style of dice rolled combat just kills immersion.

It works really well on a table top in a PvP fight but watching your character swing a sword at a enemy who's just run round a corner yet the hit still counts because you started the attack when they were next to you? It looks daft and makes the player feel like their skill is irrelevant.

The traditional RPG fans won't like it but for any kind of RPG element to survive they need to try and hide the backend stats to some degree to entice players from other genres.

Either that or I have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[melipone1]

I'm not really bothered about dice rolls, but personally I do like strategy/tactics in my RPG, be it semi turned based or full turn based, or real time if they can still make it thoughtful. Its not a requirement for a good RPG tho imo. The staples to me are..

Player choices with consequences. Not just dialogue, but different ways to approach situations.
Strong story with good writing. Not just black and white, goodie and baddie generic stuff.
Fighting as a means to an end rather than 90% of the gameplay, with options to avoid combat if your character chooses to.
Decent NPC's
Immersive gameworld with decent lore
Leveling/drops as a side effect to the main gameplay, rather than used as a carrot/stick mechanism to reward you at every opportunity just for playing. Real character development choices with limited skill/stat points for replay value

Maybe missed some stuff, but Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2 etc just don't get it right to me. Not after playing and considering RPG's to be stuff like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 1/2, Fallout 1/2, Arcanum etc.

 

[Evilsod]

I think the end is in sight for the traditional RPG and with good reason.

Constant pausing and micro managing strategy doesn't really make a good game. Games are largely about interaction (preferably) in real time with the game world and the RPG style of dice rolled combat just kills immersion.

Well putting aside the fact many people here would disagree with you and getting straight into your statement of 'killing immersion'.
Apparently people don't want immersion. Can't remember where i read it but i'm sure it was said by some big developers/publishers that people don't want it. After all these are casual players and its those players they want to tap into, they want to jump on for 30 minutes, press buttons to make something awesome happen and go, not be sucked into the game for hours.

Theres nothing more or less immersive about a top down view with the game paused while you plan your attack than there is from a high up over the shoulder third person while you spam buttons.... hold on actually i'd say the version that required more thought was actually more immersive as it held your attention, and given that DA2 doesn't require any attention unless you play on nightmare (which apparently bores the **** out of you with endless waves instead of actual encounters) theres not much luck there either.

 

['Wes]

Mass Effect 1 was the last RPG i thoroughly enjoyed, followed by KOTOR. RPG's aren't dying, developers are just trying something new and we're just not that keen on the changes they're making.

 

[LeJosh]

They just smell funny.

Devs are making them Action RPGs. That's all.

 

[Antar Bolaeisk]

...

Could it have been Bioware? I remember reading something about them only having a fraction of the audience of the likes of Fable and Oblivion (not to mention CoD) though their games in the past have been far better and cost the same if not a lot more.

One of the reasons Dragon Age 2 is the way it is results from them wanting to tap into the CoD userbase.

 

[Evilsod]

Could it have been Bioware? I remember reading something about them only having a fraction of the audience of the likes of Fable and Oblivion (not to mention CoD) though their games in the past have been far better and cost the same if not a lot more.

One of the reasons Dragon Age 2 is the way it is results from them wanting to tap into the CoD userbase.

It could've been. Sounds about right.

 

[krooton]

ME3 and The Witcher 2 will do me just fine thanks!

 

[TidyWorks]

That was a brilliant article, cheers for posting.

I don't think they're dying, just changing.

 

[Dark_Angel]

I honestly don't know if I prefer ME1 or ME2.

I liked the upgrade systems of ME1, (especially with the armor and the like) BUT the omni gel thing and the gun overheating was a bit frustrating at times and seemed a bit... off.

 

[Ozzie Dave]

Which ones? I'd like to know because I cant find enough.

Don't know what you've already played or not, but RPG games of the last few years we've had - both Drakensangs, NWN2+expansions, Risen, Nehrim (Oblivion total conversion, Gothic style feel to it) DivII: DKS is another good one (more ARPG but still a great RPG in its own right). Even Two Worlds II was good (if you can stomach the consolised interface). Indie RPGS like Avernum series? How about Eschalon I -II....that's just off the top of my head, there has been several others.

Indie RPGs don't have the latest graphics of course but that shouldn't be a problem right?. I play games for their depth rather than flashy graphics.

This year we've got The Witcher 2, Risen 2 coming and some more Indie ones. The situation right now is there are just are many newish RPGs out there as there were back in the day. It's not wall to wall RPGs but having a broad taste in gaming genres it isn't really a problem. I play other stuff during a lull. So no, I don't think the genre is dead/dying just yet. As I've said earlier, it will be small studios/Indies that keep the RPG flame alight.

 

[LeJosh]

I honestly don't know if I prefer ME1 or ME2.

I liked the upgrade systems of ME1, (especially with the armor and the like) BUT the omni gel thing and the gun overheating was a bit frustrating at times and seemed a bit... off.

It was supposed to be frustrating, instead of spamming bullets out of some physicless gun. You had to conserve your shots per say and not spam away. I don't remember much about the omni gel for some reason. :\

 

[Surfer]

Don't know what you've already played or not, but RPG games of the last few years we've had - both Drakensangs, NWN2+expansions, Risen, Nehrim (Oblivion total conversion, Gothic style feel to it) DivII: DKS is another good one (more ARPG but still a great RPG in its own right). Even Two Worlds II was good (if you can stomach the consolised interface). Indie RPGS like Avernum series? How about Eschalon I -II....that's just off the top of my head, there has been several others.

Indie RPGs don't have the latest graphics of course but that shouldn't be a problem right?. I play games for their depth rather than flashy graphics.

This year we've got The Witcher 2, Risen 2 coming and some more Indie ones. The situation right now is there are just are many newish RPGs out there as there were back in the day. It's not wall to wall RPGs but having a broad taste in gaming genres it isn't really a problem. I play other stuff during a lull. So no, I don't think the genre is dead/dying just yet. As I've said earlier, it will be small studios/Indies that keep the RPG flame alight.

I Have both Drakensang 1 + 2 still to play Might play em back to back. Another one Farewell to Dragons is on my buy list.

Proper rpgs with deep party turn-based combat based on character stats, weapons, environment etc. Are my favourite. I dont even really like the baldurs gate quasi realtime/turnbase style...give me Pools of Radiance, Curse of Azure Bonds, Champions of Krynn ssi/us gold rpg goodness. Where adventuring and combat are kept separate and focused.

 

[Xinn]

The traditional RPG's most people in "PC Games" know and love are dying with current gen RPG's evolving into simplified games in order to be played on a console by the masses and making more money for the developers/publishers.

 

[Evilsod]

I honestly don't know if I prefer ME1 or ME2.

I liked the upgrade systems of ME1, (especially with the armor and the like) BUT the omni gel thing and the gun overheating was a bit frustrating at times and seemed a bit... off.

They both had there merits... though tbh i think it was better done away with mostly because it wound up overpowered by the end. Pretty sure everyone remembers the Master Marksman 'wall o bullets' Pistol which could never overheat and fired at a ridiculous speed or the Master Overkill Assault Rifles which did basically the same thing (though oddly not as well as Pistols if i recall). Since both let you just fire endlessly. I did enjoy my '1shot overheat' High Explosive Sniper Rifles though