March in London on the 26th?

I and a big number of people caught on the wrong side of the road had to remove outselves to side streets and even then remove ourselves again along with shoppers and tourists because of the mob that was using the side streets for access.

I don't care if they "didn't damage anything" inside, I had a friend who was there taking photographs and he said that it wasn't peaceful in any sense, he was there taking pictures in with the vandals at this point. He also said, that every vandal he talked to or took pictures of, were nothing more then angry young men, men who seemed to have no political motivation, who were just there to cause trouble and used this as a platform to have a go at the police.

RE: Traff square, that kicked off an hour after we'd left. So I don't know, but it seems the Police just cornered lots of them and wouldn't let them out.
 
Superewza said:
Oh, and just heard that the 145 arrested are only being charged with trespass. Trespassing what, public spaces? :p
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Define public spaces.

If you are asked to leave private property and refuse to do so, you are trespassing under UK law. I think that's quite reasonable, don't you?

Edit: You haven't responded to my post quoting the dictionary definition of 'violence' to you, and you haven't responded to my post in which I challenge your distinction relating to 'corporate property'. Keep ignoring my posts, it's making you look real classy!
 
Tummy said:
No, you missed what I was saying.

I was there when it kicked off, as in not very far away and could see what happened.

Nobody was peaceful in the way the entered or took up a stance on that building. Nobody. As for outside, shocking scenes of a mob attacking the Police using cowardly hit and run tactics.
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I didn't miss what you were saying, i asked a question. It 'kicked off' at F&M after the occupation had begun :)

And the tactics weren't cowardly from what i've seen, they were extremely well thought out. Attack one target until the police start to turn up, then scatter individually and meet up at the next one. Allowed them to do a lot more than they would have if they stayed as a group. Does require a lot of forward planning though.
 
Superewza said:
Ideally the latter, but both are correct.

Oh, and just heard that the 145 arrested are only being charged with trespass. Trespassing what, public spaces? :p
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Trespassing in closed shops, banks, and restaurants after they had smashed their way in.

Also, you probably get your news from revleft or indynews but if you want some reliable information try this -

"Approximately 214 arrests were made for a variety of offences including: public order offences, criminal damage, aggravated trespass and violent disorder, with people in custody at various London police stations, a force spokesman said."

"There were 84 reported injuries during the protests, including at least 31 police, with 11 officers requiring hospital treatment, five of whom were discharged and six were awaiting treatment."

Source
 
Superewza said:
I didn't miss what you were saying, i asked a question. It 'kicked off' at F&M after the occupation had begun :)

And the tactics weren't cowardly from what i've seen, they were extremely well thought out. Attack one target until the police start to turn up, then scatter individually and meet up at the next one. Allowed them to do a lot more than they would have if they stayed as a group. Does require a lot of forward planning though.
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Were you there?

It didn't kick off "after" the occupation :) We had friends having coffee who'd stopped nearby (almost opposite) and when they dropped out, the store was empty.

We were walking past when it went boobs up. Nothing about that was peaceful my friend.

The tactics of flanking and attacking the police were cowardly, I'm not being funny but hitting mulitple targets might require lots of planning but attack police who had 100% been fantastic up until that point was bang out of order. Did you speak to the police when you were walking about? I did, and some were for the march, some were against it and some were just bugged at having to stand about all day watching us :p
 
Evangelion said:
You can use Trident - as a deterrent! The beauty of it is that you don't have to fire it. It's there to stop other nuclear powers attacking your country. Non-nuclear powers can be dealt with by conventional forces.

Trident is a complementary addition to the UK arsenal.
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If the Soviet Union was still knocking around I'd agree that it was an effective deterrent - as it is however, anyone who has the inclination to cause us harm does not have the capability. Let's not invent bad guys - let's fight the ones we know about.

This is my main problem I guess, replacing Trident smacks of cold war style thinking when we're living in a post-cold war world where the old paradigms are already out of date.

dante6491 said:
I recall that we recently sent a Nuclear Sub down to the Falklands when the Argies were getting all argie bargie over the possible discovery of oil. Shut them up real quick.
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I don't know about this incident but I'd suggest that a hunter-killer sub would be more useful and cost effective for a Falklands type situation than a Trident missile sub.
 
Al Vallario said:
Define public spaces.

If you are asked to leave private property and refuse to do so, you are trespassing under UK law. I think that's quite reasonable, don't you?

Edit: You haven't responded to my post quoting the dictionary definition of 'violence' to you, and you haven't responded to my post in which I challenge your distinction relating to 'corporate property'. Keep ignoring my posts, it's making you look real classy!
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Technically you can only be evicted from a property after you have received two warnings from it's owners - one to say that you are trespassing and another to say that you will be removed. Besides, if no damage is done then it is not a criminal offence.

dirtydog said:
So you believe that we do not need spending cuts at all?
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Why would we? It doesn't even achieve what it's supposed to.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Not from what I saw, and not from the numbers being estimated by people who had helicopters in the sky. The mode of the estimates from what I saw on the news and in the papers today suggest around 300k.
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We were hearing a minium of about 470'000 people were there for the March + people who turned up on the day and + the mindless **** wits.
 
Superewza said:
There were about 4500 police there i think ;)
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You see before this, as this was my first major march (I've been to plenty of demonstrations against racism) and I've always thought that the Police were out looking for trouble so to speak.

That changed this time, okay there were one or two that were clearly fed up of telling people not to go down this street.

On the whole, they were friendly, often polite and funny and weren't causing problems, they were in support, some against and some didn't care either way. You have to remember that the Police force was having massive cuts as well as the other public sectors, the only difference it seemed was they couldn't take the day off to march. Up until the trouble kicked off, I thought 100% that the police pressence wasn't needed, that's how trouble free the march was, it was in good spirit.

Trouble happened, and I've never been so pleased to see the police being heavy handed.
 
Super, I REALLY don't like shooting people down because they have a different opinion to me.

In all seriousness, I'm always happy to read other people's views as long as they're not too abusive / personal. I've been well and truly shot down in this thread. I don't really want to be back in here.

I've just been reading what you've been saying and in the thread before I was posting last night. You are almost living on another world mate :(

Anyway, will try and stay away, as the amount of stick I've picked up in here is crushing lol
 
I loved how Red Ed was out there agitating as usual! After all wasn't he and Ed Balls financial advisors to the last government, among other things when they sold off the gold when it's value was ultra low?
The serious economical was absolutely nothing to do with them or their cronies of course - they really should be trusted with our desperate economy!
I place them in the same category as Holocaust deniers!
 
dirtydog said:
We need to cut spending, because we spend beyond our means. Around £3bn per week.

Why do you think we do not need to cut spending, and what is your alternative solution?
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Money trees old boy, money trees.

Dont you have one?

Tummy said:
Super, I REALLY don't like shooting people down because they have a different opinion to me.

In all seriousness, I'm always happy to read other people's views as long as they're not too abusive / personal. I've been well and truly shot down in this thread. I don't really want to be back in here.

I've just been reading what you've been saying and in the thread before I was posting last night. You are almost living on another world mate :(

Anyway, will try and stay away, as the amount of stick I've picked up in here is crushing lol
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You see, even a fellow protestor thinks he's a nutter!

As I've said already, back to work on Monday and nothing has changed other than a few innocent people being injured and a waste of police time.
 
Tummy said:
You see before this, as this was my first major march (I've been to plenty of demonstrations against racism) and I've always thought that the Police were out looking for trouble so to speak.

That changed this time, okay there were one or two that were clearly fed up of telling people not to go down this street.

On the whole, they were friendly, often polite and funny and weren't causing problems, they were in support, some against and some didn't care either way. You have to remember that the Police force was having massive cuts as well as the other public sectors, the only difference it seemed was they couldn't take the day off to march. Up until the trouble kicked off, I thought 100% that the police pressence wasn't needed, that's how trouble free the march was, it was in good spirit.

Trouble happened, and I've never been so pleased to see the police being heavy handed.
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Can I just say Tummy that although I don't necessarily agree with you, your posts, points and attitude have the air of reason about them that will certainly persuade people to listen and understand your point.

I'm enjoying your posts and honestly finding them balanced and informative.

Just thought I'd say...
 
Tummy said:
Super, I REALLY don't like shooting people down because they have a different opinion to me.

In all seriousness, I'm always happy to read other people's views as long as they're not too abusive / personal. I've been well and truly shot down in this thread. I don't really want to be back in here.

I've just been reading what you've been saying and in the thread before I was posting last night. You are almost living on another world mate :(

Anyway, will try and stay away, as the amount of stick I've picked up in here is crushing lol
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Out of interest, what don't you agree with? To be honest i've probably said some things i'll regret later when i'm in a less lazy mood, but still :p

I'll come back to the other posts in a bit, things to attend to first :)
 
Superewza said:
Out of interest, what don't you agree with? To be honest i've probably said some things i'll regret later when i'm in a less lazy mood, but still :p

I'll come back to the other posts in a bit, things to attend to first :)
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Trust me. You'll regret absolutely everything you've said in this thread — and being a Socialist more generally — in ten years time when you're wiser and have some life experience under your belt.

If you really think — at the age of what, 17? — that you know it all when it comes to political philosophy, you are so impossibly wrong it's embarrassing just pointing it out.
 
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