Quick question to all parents...

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:19

HEADRAT said:
How the McCain's never got the book thrown at them for living their kids on their own is beyond me, what would happen if the cars handbrake went, or if it caught fire, or it was crashed into by another car etc.

Good God, not this again.

I'd have done what they did before the whole debacle, and I'd do it in the wake of it.

Now someone call social services on me.

Energize · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:27

vonhelmet said:
Is that so? I'd be intrigued, being as we sometimes do it when we're nipping into Tesco for a couple of things.

Section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 I believe.

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:39

Energize said:
Section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 I believe.

Only if you read it in the most mental fashion possible. Given that the McCanns weren't convicted of that, I think it's fair to say you'd have to go a lot further than leaving your child in the car while you go to the shops to be guilty of that.

SexyGreyFox · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:44

HEADRAT said:
How the McCain's never got the book thrown at them for living their kids on their own is beyond me,

They could actually see the apartment from where they were but obviously out of sight of the door.
What they did is no worse than what 1000s of other parents do when they go on holiday and have a baby listening service.
Would I do it? - no.

Gackt · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:46

I wouldn't leave my defenceless child alone without supervision, no - it's called common sense.

Raumarik · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:48

What's the legality of leaving a child of that age alone for so long anyway? I simply wouldn't do it, no excuses for it either.

Morba · 29 Mar 2011 at 18:54

No that's wrong of the parents and I wouldn't think highly of anyone that done it. In fact I'd probably ring the police.

Energize · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:00

vonhelmet said:
Only if you read it in the most mental fashion possible. Given that the McCanns weren't convicted of that, I think it's fair to say you'd have to go a lot further than leaving your child in the car while you go to the shops to be guilty of that.

The McCann situation is completely different to leaving a kid in a car while you spend ages shopping, people are arrested for leaving dogs in cars.

stokecity_m · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:01

vonhelmet said:
In fact, I'm calling BS on that,.

Call it what you want, it's still true.

cjbagnall · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:02

Morba said:
No that's wrong of the parents and I wouldn't think highly of anyone that done it. In fact I'd probably ring the police.

This

stokecity_m · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:03

It is an offence under Section One of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 to neglect or abandon a child under the age of 16 for whom a parent or carer has responsibility

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:07

stokecity_m said:
It is an offence under Section One of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 to neglect or abandon a child under the age of 16 for whom a parent or carer has responsibility

So why is it not an offence if you leave them in a car while you go in to pay for your petrol?

stokecity_m · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:08

vonhelmet said:
So why is it not an offence if you leave them in a car while you go in to pay for your petrol?

i guess technically it is, its just not frowned upon as much ( although it should be.)

And in this day and age with pay at the pump available it shouldn't happen..

Energize · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:09

vonhelmet said:
So why is it not an offence if you leave them in a car while you go in to pay for your petrol?

The law doesn't say what amounts to neglect, it's situational and dependant on what is considered reasonable.

I_M_Weasel · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:13

Leaving your child alone came up at work and I did call social services, I was very surprised to discover that there was no legal age, you could leave a newborn at home if you liked.

However,

if something went wrong in your absence that led to the child suffering harm then you'd be in trouble due to your neglect.

I was most frustrated as it was 3 children that I was concerned about they were aged 7, 5 and 3 but unless they were in distress or danger neither the social services or police were interested.

And to answer the OP, no I wouldn't leave a child anywhere near that young alone.

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:14

stokecity_m said:
i guess technically it is, its just not frowned upon as much ( although it should be.)

And in this day and age with pay at the pump available it shouldn't happen..

No, I'll tell you why it's not an offence under that section. It's not an offence because you are not "wilfully assaulting, ill-treating, neglecting, abandoning or exposing him, or causing or procuring him to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned, or exposed, in a manner likely to cause him unnecessary suffering or injury to health"

You'll now tell me that leaving a child in a car constitutes abandonment or neglect, and I'll point out to you that it's not abandonment if you intend to come back to them and it's not neglect if there's no inherent risk to them as a result of your leaving them in a locked car on a cool day for a reasonable length of time, and that you'd struggle to find a jury in the land would convict.

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:16

Energize said:
The law doesn't say what amounts to neglect, it's situational and dependant on what is considered reasonable.

Indeed.

Leaving a child in a locked car for a reasonable period of time on a cool day is reasonable, and I'd bet a judge and jury would say the same thing.

POB · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:16

vonhelmet said:
So why is it not an offence if you leave them in a car while you go in to pay for your petrol?

Most petrol stations you can see them through the windows.

Vonhelmet · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:22

POB said:
Most petrol stations you can see them through the windows.

The law says nothing about being able to see your child. You could sit your child in a minefield and watch them closely and you'd get nailed to the wall.

I_M_Weasel · 29 Mar 2011 at 19:34

vonhelmet said:
Indeed.

Leaving a child in a locked car for a reasonable period of time on a cool day is reasonable, and I'd bet a judge and jury would say the same thing.

I don't think an overclockers jury would find you innocent.

I'm sure you wouldn't run into trouble at a petrol station, the argument would be that it would have exposed the child to more danger by removing them from the car and crossing the busy forecourt than it would have been had you just left them in the car. I've not looked up the stats but I don't imagine many cars spontaneously combust.

As for the supermarket, people are taking a dimmer view, it suggests a greater duration of absence and the loss of ability to observe the child to ensure nothing is distressing them. Although I wouldn't do it, I'd be surprised if the police or social services would do anything, police may have some firm words I suppose.