Africa's AIDS epidemic

hurfdurf said:
Abstinence hasn't worked any where, its failed in side by side comparisons every single time, it is doing massive amounts of harm in Africa when compared to what could be being done. Saying abstinence has done good is like saying Hitler did some good, it might be true, but its grossly outweighed by the damage done when compared with the alternatives.

You seem to have come to this bizarre conclusion that Abstinence works. You also seem to have come to a conclusion that because of the problems in Africa they are not capable of doing things correctly, I wonder, what are your sources for this info? Did you study it at University? Read various articles? Come to the conclusions yourself after visiting?
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Not sure whether to bother replying to someone who thinks " nope nope nope lol" is a reasonable way to debate, it's massively ignorant for one thing.

Did you actually understand the point I was making about how we seek to cover up the faults in our own society by thinking it's OK to replicate them in another culture?
This is the point in bothering to make a proper reply, yes?

I've spent a month in Africa, that doesn't make me an expert on anything but I did notice that it sure isn't a European culture and they are nothing like European blacks.

What makes you think it's sensible to ape our societies way of doing things in a country with such massive ignorance on what is killing them?
IME, dealing with a simplistic culture requires a simplistic solution, not our current technological hand holding.
 
bitslice said:
Not sure whether to bother replying to someone who thinks " nope nope nope lol" is a reasonable way to debate, it's massively ignorant for one thing.

Did you actually understand the point I was making about how we seek to cover up the faults in our own society by thinking it's OK to replicate them in another culture?
This is the point in bothering to make a proper reply, yes?

I've spent a month in Africa, that doesn't make me an expert on anything but I did notice that it sure isn't a European culture and they are nothing like European blacks.

What makes you think it's sensible to ape our societies way of doing things in a country with such massive ignorance on what is killing them?
IME, dealing with a simplistic culture requires a simplistic solution, not our current technological hand holding.
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I do not buy into the false premise that we have faults in our own society in the areas that you describe, especially when the alternatives are demonstratively worse.

I wonder if you realise how offensive and ignorant your views that Africa is a "simplistic" culture is and they are not the same as "European blacks", especially when considering how far the more developed areas have come with the help of international aid and development. In fact, use of that kind of terminology demonstrates the kind of person you are and with hindsight almost certainly have to be to hold the kind of views you have.
 
hurfdurf said:
I do not buy into the false premise that we have faults in our own society in the areas that you describe, especially when the alternatives are demonstratively worse.
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our behaviour creates all sorts of problems from std's to unwanted pregnancies, but we can't claim ignorance as a defence, faults exist but we choose to regard them as acceptable because our problems are not going to kill us.
I wonder if you realise how offensive and ignorant your views that Africa is a "simplistic" culture is and they are not the same as "European blacks",
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My father lived out there for years, he found that certain operations worked better if they were colour coded and that mining rights could be negotiated by trading with a box of watches.
I'll stand by my point because I don't think you've ever once set foot in rural Africa. The world is not a Benetton advert and we are not culturally all the same or hold the same values. Where you would never consider refusing to use a condom, an African male might well.
Surely a brief history of Rwanda would hint that something is different here? Your cheap implications of racism don't hold water I think.

I'd suggest that it's the expectation that Africa can be easily westernised that has led to frustrated policies on HIV prevention, where the west has tried various ways of overcoming endemic levels of ignorance and generally fallen on its face.
We are dismissive of simplistic approaches because we have ridiculed them in our own societies, it's our own arrogance that prevents us from seeing that those some approaches might well work in other cultures.

Yes we could brute force a solution, by pushing enough drugs and money into Africa we could turn them all into little clones of ourselves in 50 years. Personally I think our society is not one that should be replicated everywhere because it's not a very good role model. If Muslims think the west is degenerate then perhaps we should stop for a moment and consider their point of view, being No1 doesn't validate our position any more than it did for Nero.


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dmpoole said:
If drug misusers can infect each other through a needle then it's possible a mosquito could pass HIV on (but apparently it can't).
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that happens when the needle is used by the infected person (and some blood drawn back into it) then it's handed over and used by another pretty much straight after.

a while ago some ****ing nutters put HVI infected needles in cinema seats people sat down got stuck by it then looked down to find a note saying "you're been infected with HVi" or something, fortunately the HVi virus can't survive outside the body for more than a few minuets so they weren't infected because it had been infected with the HVI hours ago.
 
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