Lost the appeal

Neil79

Neil79

Neil79

Caporegime
Joined
8 Sep 2006
Posts
39,427
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On Ocuk
Regarding this : http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18222394&highlight=jobseekers

And all the support everyone on ocuk gave, it didn't matter my mum was turned down by the medical and the appeal:(. They then decided to suspended her housing benefit and she wasn't getting any money. She then appealed as she also had evidence from the hospital regarding her paralitic migrains, visual loss that she gets every 4 days and a high risk of stroke. Today the appeal was turned down, apparantly they feel she is safe to work!. She was told in a letter that the doctors CANNOT appeal and that they are not allowed to give her anymore sick notes. The jobcenter previously to this told her not to tell her employment about her stroke risk or her severe migraines. Disgusted, this has stressed her so much yesterday she was even crying. So there you go people if you have a hole in your heart, a high stroke risk and get severe migraines every few days they don't care!. When she gets these migrains she is a danger to herself and the people around her and these are common, if she had a stroke even more so.

I feel so sorry for my mum!

And what's more fustrating not related, but the Work Scheme which helps disabled people and our own Soldiers has been shut down. Everyone in the scheme has been made redundent and people who are still getting support back to work are kicked out and being told there is nothing for them until June.
 
I find it strange that they said the Doc cant issue her with anymore sicknotes,if she is sick and the Doctor agrees then its his duty to issue her with a sicknote i would have thought.
 
They must have an appeal / complaint process and take it higher. Sounds like some I'll trainined person not doing there job or being pressurised by management. Sick notes have nothing to do with them. I would also look at getting legal advice, solicitors usually have a free initial meeting. At least they could tell you if you have any options.
 
Christ, that sounds harsh.

All you can do is support your mum, follow the complaint procedure (perhaps do as much as you can do to not to further stress your mum, like any complaints procedure, it takes time).

Also if she is struggling financially because of this, straight to CAB you should go. Explain whats what and if she's in any money trouble so they can give advice on how to proceed further.

:confused:
 
I'm really sorry to hear that OP. But I can't imagine that it's over. There's probably more options available in order to pursue this matter further, the more knowledgeable members will no doubt point you in the right direction.

Don't give up hope buddy, you'll find a way :)
 
It sounds harsh the way you describe it, however you are far from an independent observer when it comes to evaluating your mum's fitness to work.

The real issue is that we are moving from a system of trust to a system of assessment, and there are always going be conflicts between people's opinions and independent assessment of capability.
 
I've got the number for CAB and will be sorting that out during the week!

And dolph that shouldn't make a difference to what type of observer i am in this case, if someone has a heart condition that could lead to a stroke at any time with migrains that disable someone they should NOT be fit for work. If the hospital and or doctors say she shouldn't be working and it's unsafe she SHOULDN'T be fit for work.

:(
 
Neil79 said:
I've got the number for CAB and will be sorting that out during the week!

And dolph that shouldn't make a difference to what type of observer i am in this case, if someone has a heart condition that could lead to a stroke at any time with migrains that disable someone they should NOT be fit for work. If the hospital and or doctors say she shouldn't be working and it's unsafe she SHOULDN'T be fit for work.

:(
Click to expand...

Dont bother with the CAB, write directly to the secretary of state for health (Andrew Lansley)

153 St Neots Road
Hardwick
Cambridge
CB23 7QJ
Tel: 01954 212 707
Fax: 01954 211 625

Email: [email protected]
 
Neil79 said:
I've got the number for CAB and will be sorting that out during the week!

And dolph that shouldn't make a difference to what type of observer i am in this case, if someone has a heart condition that could lead to a stroke at any time with migrains that disable someone they should NOT be fit for work. If the hospital and or doctors say she shouldn't be working and it's unsafe she SHOULDN'T be fit for work.

:(
Click to expand...

GPs, and hospitals providing direct treatment to the patient, are not always the best placed individuals to provide an objective assessment of ability to work, because they also have to 'please' the patient and ensure they continue treatment. There's a good article about the conflict here from the Guardian.

Work capability assessment works on what you are actually capable of, the first condition you describe would only exclude physical work or high stress environments, and the second can be managed or worked around by a considerate employer. You haven't given anything that would actually prevent her from working.
 
Deluxe1 said:
I find it strange that they said the Doc cant issue her with anymore sicknotes,if she is sick and the Doctor agrees then its his duty to issue her with a sicknote i would have thought.
Click to expand...

Sicknotes are for employers surely?
One would have to be working first?
Is this a sicknote to say your are sick and shouldn't even bother trying to work?
I don't understand.


Does high stroke risk mean she can't work? I don't quite understand that bit either. Surely the stroke risk is high or at work, and one wouldn't exclude the other?
 
Do you agree with the jobcenter though that she should not tell her employers about her condition until after she is employed?
 
Neil79 said:
Do you agree with the jobcenter though that she should not tell her employers about her condition until after she is employed?
Click to expand...

No, because failure to disclose something like that is a reason to terminate employment.

She would probably be better trying for employment with a larger company more able to make allowances for her condition than a smaller one though.
 
Thanks Dolph

The only thing now is she has to fill out all the forms again for jobseekers and such, going sick and going through all this has been more hastle than her being forced to look for work and working with her condition!. I thought it would ease her stress,worry,suffering i even posted on ocuk and got a ton of advice and went with it.

Sigh :(, i feel i made her life worse.

Well done me
 
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Neil79 said:
Thanks Dolph

The only thing now is she has to fill out all the forms again for jobseekers and such, going sick and going through all this has been more hastle than her being forced to look for work and working with her condition!. I thought it would ease her stress,worry,suffering i even posted on ocuk and got a ton of advice and went with it.

Sigh :(, i feel i made her life worse.

Well done me
Click to expand...

You did what you thought was right, in fairness I'd probably have done exactly the same. Now put that support into managing the new situation and do the best you can for your mum.

Also, please don't take anything I've said personally, because it certainly isn't. My mum is waiting for her call up for assessment for Incapacity benefit etc as well.

The problem is the system is being reformed, there will be winners and losers, and some of the people who lose out will almost certainly not deserve to, but currently we pay some of the highest proportions of disability payments in the western world, and as a nation, we aren't that unfit, so there is clearly some need to reform the system.
 
I think you need to come at this from two directions. The first should be to get your mum some income, so she needs to make a claim to JSA, if you make a claim by calling the call centre they will take the claim over the phone and your mum wont have to stress herself by filling in the forms on her own, you could then look at getting her housing benefit and council tax sorted as she would be on a low income/benefit. Once she has some income then look at appealing the decision not to treat her as being sick, CAB's are usually good at advising you on what your options are, I'm sure you can appeal an appeal decision but cannot make a further claim to ESA unless its with a different illness than your previous claim. Hope you can get something sorted for her soon.
 
Dolph said:
No, because failure to disclose something like that is a reason to terminate employment.

She would probably be better trying for employment with a larger company more able to make allowances for her condition than a smaller one though.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is tbh, I don't think they are even allowed to ask, she can ask during the job interview for any reasonable adjustments to be made and she can ask for reasonable adjustments to be made at work. But it is for her benefit and the employer has to make reasonable adjustments.

So basically, she probably can work but needs to make sure measures are in place to handle her disability.
 
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