cinema required

Soldato
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looking for ideas on what kit to go and demo for a cinema system im putting together for a friend.


10k budget for all

i was thinking along the lines of:

projector and screen £4000
amp £1700
speakers £ 3500
stands, wires, bits and bobs £300


thinking of :
Epson EH-TW5500 Projector
Arcam Amp
B&W speaker package

can you suggest any other brands/makes/models that we should go and demo

thank you
 
The Arcam amp is very good.

The B&W would be fine as a match, but I'd go for the bi-pole rear surrounds for the proper movie experience. Here's something I wrote for another member considering the B&Ws...

Rear speakers.... It's easy to overlook just how important they are in creating a convincing and enjoyable surround sound effect.

The whole point of surround sound is to feel like you are immersed in the action, right? So the rear sound field should be enveloping without you being aware of the location of those speakers. That's very different from what the front speakers are doing. Here you want excellent imagery and pinpoint accuracy.

So, if we use direct firing speakers for the front because they give excellent imaging....why use them in the rear where that's exactly what we don't want?

The correct speakers for rear effects use are bi-pole speakers that produce a diffuse surround effect. Who says so? Well Dolby Labs, DTS, THX, all of the worlds theatre dubbing and sound mixing studios and pretty much everyone in the business of making movie soundtracks.

There are times when direct firing speaker are correct for rear use; but it's not for movie surround work. Multichannel SACD- and DVD-Audio music disc should be listened to with direct firing rear speakers. But that's it.

Something else is special about rear speakers. It's how close they are to the seating position.

The front speakers need space to focus the stereo image because that's how they work. Sit too close, or way off to one side or the other and the effect is ruined. Now think about where the rear speakers should be - which is either side of the main seating area and about a foot higher than seated head height. How close are you to those speakers? Are you closer to one than the other? Are you sitting much closer than you'd consider correct if these were front speakers?

Of course, not every room will allow for big boxy direct firing rear speakers to be put in the best position; so what's the alternative? The corners a ceiling height of course!! Now guess what's the worst place you can put a speaker

High corners are bad for various reasons. The first is speaker design. They just aren't tuned for somewhere that messes up the bass as bad as a corner. The second is imaging. We hear direct and reflected sound. The best imaging is where we hear very little reflected sound. Reflections come from hard surfaces; walls, the ceiling and the floor mostly. The further away those surfaces then the less reflected sound to spoil the imaging. A corner puts three hard surfaces right next to the speaker.

Dipole speakers have a slim profile. They protrude very little from the wall. The speakers fire sound along the axis of the wall forwards and backwards. This creates the even and diffuse sound field which is exactly what's needed for rear surround effects.

If you haven't nodded off yet then you might be asking why all rear surround speakers aren't di-poles. The answer in most cases is cost. B&W's di-pole rears (DS3) cost £550 compared to £299 for the 686 direct firing speakers. That would push the budget for a B&W 5.1 system to over £1500, but result would be so much better.

Some alternative brands that do dipole rear surround - Monitor Audio, Focal, Kef, Teufel.


I'd also budget something for a proper video calibration on the projector. That alone will make more difference to your picture quality than spending an extra £1000 on a better projector. Calibration is generally £350-£400, so in that context it is good value.

Speakers - have a listen to Monitor Audio Bronze BX and Silver RX ranges too. There are bi-pole/di-pole switchable rears available in both these ranges.

With an amp & speakers as good as the ones mentioned here they deserve better quality speaker cable than I think you're budgeting.... certainly on the front three speakers at least. Chord Rumour would be completely appropriate. It's around £12/m + termination which is always a good idea at the amp end.
 
I am not experienced as some of the guys here but I too am in the process of building a dedicated cinema room.

So for your reference this is the equipment I am getting:

Speaker Package: Monitor Audio RX6 AV12 package
AVR: Pioneer SC-LX83
TV: Panasonic VT30 plasma (55") or Samsung D8000 plasma (51") - Still unsure about which TV to go for!
 
Might want to check out the B&W CM series. Next step up from the 600s. Also if going for the B&Ws it might be an idea to look at a different make subs. B&Ws subs are normally overpriced when you can get a BK Monolith for half the price and is just as if not better then the B&Ws.

I'd recommend you register on avforums. You'll get plenty of decent advice.
 
Put aside £500 or so for room treatment aswell, cover all you can in velvet. I would probably look at a JVC projector aswell, and go for a fixed cinemascope screen.
 
Will this be purely for Cinema, or also for music? If both, which would you rather optimise (yes, I will result in a different recommendation).

I agree with the above comment about a JVC D-ILA projector. I'm told that their HD and new X series really are the dogs gonads, assuming that can create an appropriately dark room.
 
Another vote for the JVC DLA series here.

Had a demo of their X3 'entry level' projector a couple of months ago and was very impressed. Also had a demo of two of last years models - the HD550 and HD750 which were superb too - you can find these quite heavily discounted now, so should be able to pick up a bargain if you're not fussed with 3D.

If you want 3D go with the X series - the 3D demo even impressed me and I'm not interested in it!
 
The JVCs are very good, but the brightness is a bit limited on the 750. I'd look at a higher gain screen if going much bigger than 7ft wide (96" diag) 16:9 or the image will lose a bit of punch even with the iris fully open. This is from my experience calibrating a 750 recently which had 280 hrs on the lamp.
 
thank you all

great recommendations and will definately have a look at that JVC

my mate is saying he wants to go 3D, do you think this is a gimmick or the way forward ?

Will this be purely for Cinema, or also for music? .

dedicated cinema room, but im sure he will play the odd song here and there on it too

Put aside £500 or so for room treatment aswell, cover all you can in velvet. I would probably look at a JVC projector aswell, and go for a fixed cinemascope screen.

thanks, i didnt even think about room treatment .. will need to look in to that more

Might want to check out the B&W CM series. Next step up from the 600s. Also if going for the B&Ws it might be an idea to look at a different make subs. B&Ws subs are normally overpriced when you can get a BK Monolith for half the price and is just as if not better then the B&Ws.

I'd recommend you register on avforums. You'll get plenty of decent advice.

I have a pair of the B&W 603 and love them to bits.. (i have a REL storm sub) although i have seen some B&W cinema kits that include the sub .. ill need to do a bit more research in to this too

im already registered at avforums, just thought to try here first. ..
 
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If he's using a projector then you really want to kill as much light/reflection of light in the room as possible. BLACK VELVET EVERYWHERE! Or, you could pay £2K and up for a Black Diamond 2 screen and worry less about the black and only have to look at acoustics.
 
Another vote for JVC. I'm on my 3rd projector and 2nd JVC at the mo (HD750/RS20). The newer x series look nice, although bulb performance on the higher end models - X5, X7 & X9 - is a little worring (check avs forums if you want more info on that). The DLA-X3 doesn't seem to have this problem tho and fits nicely within budget. If I was buying a projector this year it'd either be a JVC (an X3 or, if there are any floating around for a good price, a RS35/HD990) or the TrueVue Vango. The latter is an LED machine that looks lovely, but it might not be available in the UK or be in budget.

What size screen ar you looking at? For something 120" or bigger you'll need some gain (DaLite High Power screen was my choice). For anything ~ 100" or less, something from Beamax or Carada would do the trick.

Hope this helps.
 
What size screen ar you looking at? For something 120" or bigger you'll need some gain (DaLite High Power screen was my choice). For anything ~ 100" or less, something from Beamax or Carada would do the trick.

Hope this helps.


im going to go over and measure the room proplery and work out best screen size next week

but im guessing it will be around the 120" mark
 
If you go for that size or larger make sure you plan for the bulb dimming. You'll lose around 50% of the bulbs output over it's life. When I first got my HD750 it powered a 110" 1.0 screen without issue. After a few 100 hours the image was too dim. In the end I went for DaLite screen with a 2.8 gain - brightness is no longer an issue, but there some compromises to take into account. Regardless, it's the best screen i've had so far out of about 5 or 6 screens over the years.
 
It's retro reflective, which means the light bounces straight back to the source, rather than angular reflective, in which the light bounces off the screen like a pool ball hitting a cushion. Basically, to get the benefit of the extra gain the projector needs to be as close to head height as possible ..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773065 Scroll down a little in the first post, there's some handy pics.

This results in a 'cone of goodness' when setup correctly. Stray too far to the left or right of the projector and the brightness quickly diminishes. My cone is a four seater sofa right infront of the screen - everyone sitting there gets a nice plasma like image. If you sit on the sofa at the side of the room it looks like a standard 1.0 gain screen. The benefits are you get a very bright image and none of the usual nasties associated with an angular reflective screen that has gain - hotspotting (image brighter in the center of the screen with dim corners) and sparklies (not the technical name :)) - a visible sheen over the material in bright scenes. Both of these drove me nuts with past screens.
 
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