**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Doesn't the creep prevent cannon rushes from hitting the hatch? If so you could continue to harvest while building another main elsewhere, and even better if you placed your spawning pool behind the minerals and not in front of the hatch. This is of course assuming they haven't blocked your ramp and the cannons aren't behind your mineral line, but then you'd surely have seen and prevented the latter and likely spotted or otherwise got a drone out before the former.

Luckily, I was only cannon rushed less than a dozen times back in Bronze/Silver, and this is out of 300+ games. Since I've been high Gold it's an extreme rarity, tho once or twice I have been caught out :o
 
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jomiyo said:
Doesn't the creep prevent cannon rushes from hitting the hatch? If so you could continue to harvest while building another main elsewhere, and even better if you placed your spawning pool behind the minerals and not in front of the hatch. This is of course assuming they haven't blocked your ramp and the cannons aren't behind your mineral line, but then you'd surely have seen and prevented the latter and likely spotted or otherwise got a drone out before the former.

Luckily, I was only cannon rushed less than a dozen times back in Bronze/Silver, and this is out of 300+ games. Since I've been high Gold it's an extreme rarity, tho once or twice I have been caught out :o
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Yeah cheeky sods are starting the cannon rushes at the bottom of the ramp, then moving up, it's happening about 2 mins in too. Gotta admit though, it's not happened this week, just a few 6 pools.

Bronze player, so yeah I still have to tolerate the cheesy bronze one-move-willies.
 
I have to say since I started playing the amount of 6 pool's I've seen in Bronze/Silver has gone down incredibly, the majority are 3/5rr, canon rushes and proxy's, 6pool is so hilariously easy to deal with, as Protoss anyway, wall off gateway/forge, chrono zealots and get a canon down by your base as soon as the forge is up, also if you can wall your pylons off with other pylons, the less the zerg can surround them the longer you will last.

I think the most annoying kind of cheese is proxy zealot/marine rushes.
 
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Shayne said:
Yeah cheeky sods are starting the cannon rushes at the bottom of the ramp, then moving up, it's happening about 2 mins in too. Gotta admit though, it's not happened this week, just a few 6 pools.

Bronze player, so yeah I still have to tolerate the cheesy bronze one-move-willies.
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I think in bronze, a successful cannon rush isn't an automatic win. The thing to take into account is that a cannon is extremely expensive, so building too many will massively compromise their tech. Often players will go over the top and build tons thinking they've won the game, but in so doing they've signed their death warrant :p.

It depends on the map and situation, but say you have been completely walled in by lots of cannons, you're essentially stuck on 1 base. Use this to your advantage and spend your resources on tech. One nydus worm into their main will end the game, given that they basically have no mobility.

When dealing with players who've only built a few, roaches are the best call in my opinion.

The key is not to panic :).

As for 6 pools, just move your drones off the mineral line and get good surrounds. With a 14 pool type build it should be nearly done when the fight is finished. You'll then have a superior economy and probably significantly faster ling speed :).
 
Oh some advice for Protoss players being canon rushed, if you are in the low leagues and want an instant win, keep your first scout out, build a forge/canon in your base (Canons hard counter canons) and 2 gate proxy the *******, works like a charm especially if they over commit to the cannon rush.
 
|Thomas| said:
I think in bronze, a successful cannon rush isn't an automatic win. The thing to take into account is that a cannon is extremely expensive, so building too many will massively compromise their tech. Often players will go over the top and build tons thinking they've won the game, but in so doing they've signed their death warrant :p.

It depends on the map and situation, but say you have been completely walled in by lots of cannons, you're essentially stuck on 1 base. Use this to your advantage and spend your resources on tech. One nydus worm into their main will end the game, given that they basically have no mobility.

When dealing with players who've only built a few, roaches are the best call in my opinion.

The key is not to panic :).

As for 6 pools, just move your drones off the mineral line and get good surrounds. With a 14 pool type build it should be nearly done when the fight is finished. You'll then have a superior economy and probably significantly faster ling speed :).
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Do you know what, I've never ever built a nydus network and used the worm, I've never even thought of that. I'll give it a go tonight against some AI, I'll just "act" like I'm being cannon rushed at say 2:30, then see how fast I can get the nydus worm into their base. That'd make me so happy to be able to laugh at them when they realise what's happening.
 
Shayne said:
Do you know what, I've never ever built a nydus network and used the worm, I've never even thought of that. I'll give it a go tonight against some AI, I'll just "act" like I'm being cannon rushed at say 2:30, then see how fast I can get the nydus worm into their base. That'd make me so happy to be able to laugh at them when they realise what's happening.
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It doesn't work well against higher rank players, because they won't overdue the number of cannons and will just get an economic advantage and win (a 1 base zerg is an awful situation to be in). Against fools though it works fantastically well :). The thing to remember is they can do any of these things:

1) Build cannons
2) Tech
3) Build up an economy

They cannot physically do all of them, at most one well or 2 badly. If they continue to build cannons, you know they can't have any tech or an early expansion. You can't out expand them, unfortunately, but you can easily out tech them.

I might be online tonight if you fancy me cannon rushing you a bit? My protoss is a little rusty but I'm sure I could give it a go :).
 
|Thomas| said:
It doesn't work well against higher rank players, because they won't overdue the number of cannons and will just get an economic advantage and win (a 1 base zerg is an awful situation to be in). Against fools though it works fantastically well :). The thing to remember is they can do any of these things:

1) Build cannons
2) Tech
3) Build up an economy

They cannot physically do all of them, at most one well or 2 badly. If they continue to build cannons, you know they can't have any tech or an early expansion. You can't out expand them, unfortunately, but you can easily out tech them.

I might be online tonight if you fancy me cannon rushing you a bit? My protoss is a little rusty but I'm sure I could give it a go :).
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Cheers for that fella but don't worry about it, I don't take it too seriously, I'll get familiar with the Nydus worm against AI then next time I'm cannon rushed I'll give it a try.

Cheers again though.
 
Shayne said:
Cheers for that fella but don't worry about it, I don't take it too seriously, I'll get familiar with the Nydus worm against AI then next time I'm cannon rushed I'll give it a try.

Cheers again though.
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Fair enough :), I've been taking a break from sc2 recently (well, exams have stopped me more correctly) so you've done me a favour :p. I suspect I'm rather rusty.

Hopefully in the summer I'll get some more practice time :), hopefully I can get to master terran macro.
 
Shayne said:
Do you know what, I've never ever built a nydus network and used the worm, I've never even thought of that. I'll give it a go tonight against some AI, I'll just "act" like I'm being cannon rushed at say 2:30, then see how fast I can get the nydus worm into their base. That'd make me so happy to be able to laugh at them when they realise what's happening.
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Nydus can be good but it is situational, but a lot of guys will make a couple of cannons and some zealots to help pressure. A good way to break out is just get a queen and a small roach army to break through.
 
Right, been working on what people have said, and just won 4 1v1's on the bounce, now just been placed silver in 3v3 after winning my last two placements (started them right at the beginning of season 2 and not played these last two since :))

Cheers guys :)
 
Normally don't care for these, but here's a relevant exception:

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latest patch notes are up:
# PROTOSS

* Archons are now a massive unit.

* Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.

* Cybernetics Core

o Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.

* Gateway

o Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.

o Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.

o Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

o Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.



# TERRAN

* Ghost

o Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.

o Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.



# ZERG

* Spore Crawler

o Root time decreased from 12 to 6.
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looks like the warpgate timing rumours were true. No marine nerf takes the biscuit though.
 
Warpgate wasn't really a rumour, their were blue posts regarding at least some kind of change to it in the next patch.

Have to say I'm actually happy with the changes, 4gate won't be so strong but the zealot/zealot/stalker early pressure will be stronger. (Anyone who doesn't do this vs Terran is gimping themselves, it's so easy for how effective it can be).

Also ARCHONS MASSIVE WOW IT ONLY TOOK A YEAR. Now hopefully Archons will be a viable unit in their own right, rather than what you do when your templars stop being useful.

The pylon range change I'm not quite so happy with, I've never really liked that a building can be entirely shut down by killing something with half it's life, the fact that they will now be even closer means it will be easier for people to do so.

I think the Sporecrawler buff is a bit much however, it gives them far too much mobility for what is supposed to be static defense that doesn't take up food.



There is however a rather large flaw that I forsee with the gatway changes, yes it may reduce the effectiveness of a 4gate but it will make a 2gate/proxy far stronger.
 
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Damn, I love 4gating :( Me and a couple of mates have been trashing opponents, 2x mass marines, with me doing an early expo 4gate robo for backup and mid-late game if the rush doesnt go well :)

Anyone up for some matches tonight?
 
iamtheoneneo said:
latest patch notes are up:

looks like the warpgate timing rumours were true. No marine nerf takes the biscuit though.
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Why do marines need a nerf?

To be fair, 4gates are easy to stop, there are so many tells that they are doing it. But im still happy I don't have to worry about it on ladder :). I think the balance changes are good, the bunker one is nice, but it wont stop 2rax. oh well.
 
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