The Koran - Whos Read It?
- Thread starter magick
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Sorry mate I'm really not understanding you!! Are you saying Lucifer is banned from heaven and can never come back? Well yes of course! He turned his back on god! There's no coming back from that for an Angel, he seems to give a heck of a less leeway to his angels then to us humans. It's clear he puts in much higher regards then he does he angels as when he created man he commanded angels to bow to us.
No mate thats not what I am saying.
Lets take several points of religion:
1. Lucifer existed and exists
2. Heaven and hell exists
Lets now break that down if it is possible into science:
1. Lucifer on earth existed (make your own choice) for example: Hitler, Saddam Hussain, Roy Keane etc In some countries it is illegal to "enjoy" as a previous poster put it the historical events of these "lucifers" but its fine in the face of religious texts. Why? what is the difference between lucifer the hellish god to man?
2. Good and bad which define heaven and hell are based on human feelings and emotions both of which die when the body dies since both are based on the senses of the body powered by the brain. If you die, how can you go to heaven if there is no longer a moral demarcation point between good and bad?
I'm not trying to be clever here or get banned I am just asking questions.
*sighs*
Has Castiel got his contraband out again?
It was actually my contraband he was referring to. That Castiel's a bloody bad influence, I tells ya. First it's all "Ooh come and have a look at my Superman costume", and the next thing you know there's contraband everywhere!
Concepts of Good and Bad (evil) define heaven and hell from human physical perspective but in the divine courts where you are judged when you die concpets like good and evil aren't used. What are judged are the results of your actions. If you actions were devolutionary you goto the inferior worlds (hell) and if they evolutionary you goto superior worlds (heaven)
It was actually my contraband he was referring to. That Castiel's a bloody bad influence, I tells ya. First it's all "Ooh come and have a look at my Superman costume", and the next thing you know there's contraband everywhere!
Oh my!
*sighs*
Has Castiel got his contraband out again?
It was actually my contraband he was referring to. That Castiel's a bloody bad influence, I tells ya. First it's all "Ooh come and have a look at my Superman costume", and the next thing you know there's contraband everywhere!
I got to let it out now and then, if it doesn't get an airing it just explodes and makes an enormous mess....
Bear in mind that other religions view it differently (even the other way around completely; for example it being the MOTIVE rather than RESULT being important). But I digress, as this is about the Muslim/Abrahamic texts.
Can you please define evolutionary actions in the modern sense then that would enable me to go to a superior world?
Bear in mind that other religions view it differently (even the other way around completely; for example it being the MOTIVE rather than RESULT being important). But I digress, as this is about the Muslim/Abrahamic texts.
Yes but motive is irrelevant. You can have all the good motives in the world but ultimately if you harm people or cause suffering you'll be punished.
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Destroying your ego to put it simply.
Your assuming, religion does not assume anything.
Are you talking from a Muslim pov there? Buddhism would disagree. For example, say I saw a little girl about to be hit by a truck. I dive to save her, but doing so accidentally knock over an old lady. The shock kills her. That's an extreme example, but with no bad motive or malice aforethought how can there be a negative 'judgment'?
Religion assumes lots of things, they depend upon the religion in question but they all make some pretty big assumptions.
Right, i think i understand now, you mean evil itself, Lucifer has influanced these people (Hitler, Saddam Hussain, Roy Keane etc) to do these unspeakable things. You say banned i'm guessing you mean holocaust denial, which in principle i disagree with as it curtails freedom of speech. The reason it's banned is because of man, nothing to do with god, i'm guessing here that god doesn't care if it's not banned as it's up to us to reject the lies told to us and seek the truth. As it's god that's blessed us with freedom of choice.
Good and bad doesn't define heaven and hell, god has defined what heaven and hell is and how to achive getting there. Human feelings and emotions tend to be qutie brutal and left to our own devices we'd probably be pretty bad! (history is littered with proof of this) It's much harder to be good then it is to be bad, otherwise we would never need to punish our childern and teach them right from wrong. They would be born perfect and never be spolit, selfish or mean, which we all know then can be to an extreme!
I doubt there would be a negative judgement in that instance.
An example of good intentions but creating suffering would be giving a child abuser/rapist/murderer a second chance then he goes and commits more crimes. Though thats a very extreme case.
Or maybe giving money to a homeless drug addict or sending large amounts of money to third world which instead of eliminating poverty and suffering actualy increases it because it keeps people alive who'll just breed indefinitely.
Or perfect case would be politicians creating wars and dropping bombs on people because it's good to spread democracy and freedom.
A more down to earth example in the UK are do gooders that champion the rights of gang members and say they are victims of circumstance and not responsible for there actions and seek to defend and inadvertantly encourage there devolutionary behaviour.
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