Poll: 6÷2(1+2)

Nitefly · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:19

Hatter The Mad said:
Which degree do you have? I read Computer Science and spent an (unfortunate) lot of time dealing with expression parsing, which is the only reason why I have such a standard order of operations boner.

Had I not done this, I don't think I'd have been this certain.

My housemate who has a masters in computer science says it's clearly ambiguous and there is no answer, but if he had to plump for an answer at gun point, it would be one.

There are obviously various ways of looking at it!

Hatter The Mad · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:20

Nitefly said:
My housemate who has a masters in computer science says it's clearly ambiguous and there is no answer, but if he had to plump for an answer at gun point, it would be one.

There are obviously various ways of looking at it!

No there isn't.

I don't give a crap who has what degree, GCSE or PhD. Having a qualification has never, ever stopped people being wrong abut something.

Standard order of operations: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algebra/Order_of_Operations#The_Standard_Order_of_Operations

terms inside parenthesis
exponents and roots
multiplication and division
addition and subtraction

Left to right.

Do it:

6/2(1+2)

yhack · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:21

I think that settles it.

dowie · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:21

Nitefly said:
My housemate who has a masters in computer science says it's clearly ambiguous and there is no answer, but if he had to plump for an answer at gun point, it would be one.

There are obviously various ways of looking at it!

Well the standard way would be that it = 9

I hate to see any of your flatmate's production code.

Jokester · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:26

Hatter The Mad said:
Which degree do you have? I read Computer Science and spent an (unfortunate) lot of time dealing with expression parsing, which is the only reason why I have such a standard order of operations boner.

Had I not done this, I don't think I'd have been this certain.

The only argument for it is ambiguous is because some calculators (whether computer or people) are arriving at a wrong answer... which isn't ambiguity at all, it is just misunderstanding.

I did a Masters degree in Engineering, so I did 5 years of maths to degree level, though to be honest I would never write calcs out in that form. In my head this is how I view it to get 1 =

As I said before, to get 1 in that case it has to be explicitly written as 6/(2(1+2)).

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:26

Hatter The Mad said:
No there isn't.

I don't give a crap who has what degree, GCSE or PhD. Having a qualification has never, ever stopped people being wrong abut something.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algebra/Order_of_Operations#The_Standard_Order_of_Operations

terms inside parenthesis
exponents and roots
multiplication and division
addition and subtraction

Left to right.

Do it.

Again, explaining what 'standard proceedure' is doesn't confront what people are constantly saying to you again and again, especially as I have a feeling quite a bit of your audience are more aware of those 'rules' than you are.

Try actually responding to what they are saying rather than just explaining what you think you mean over and over again as if in some arrogant way saying "left to right" the twentieth time will get through to us as if that was the little 'nugget' we were missing all along.

yhack said:
I think that settles it.

Ah, but I can see it's not in scientific mode. :cool:

Hatter The Mad · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:28

guyfawkes5 said:
Try actually responding to what they are saying rather than just explaining what you think you mean over and over again as if in some arrogant way saying "left to right" the twentieth time will get through to us as if that was the little 'nugget' we were missing all along.

"They" have been saying that it is the division symbol which is causing ambiguity, but it doesn't hold true. Processing it with the standard order of operations produces the same result.

What else have I missed and not responded to?

Jokester · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:29

Jokester said:
I did a Masters degree in Engineering, so I did 5 years of maths to degree level, though to be honest I would never write calcs out in that form. In my head this is how I view it to get 1 =

As I said before, to get 1 in that case it has to be explicitly written as 6/(2(1+2)).

Just to add to that, that's how I would write it out for an answer of 9:-

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:29

Hatter The Mad said:
"They" have been saying that it is the division symbol which is causing ambiguity, but it doesn't hold true. Processing it with the standard order of operations produces the same result.

What else have I missed and not responded to?

Consider for a moment that there is a 'standard order of operations' other than the 'standard order of operations' you were thought in your primary school.

Experience the ephiphany.

Nitefly · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:30

yhack said:
I think that settles it.

Haha

dowie said:
I hate to see any of your flatmate's production code.

Well he's probably the most intelligent and competent person I know, so I'm going with him on that it's ambiguous and I don't care what any randomer from GD says

Hatter The Mad · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:31

guyfawkes5 said:
Consider for a moment that there is a 'standard order of operations' other than the 'standard order of operations' you were thought in your primary school.

Experience the ephiphany.

There isn't. We weren't taught the standard order of operations at school - we were taught an order of operations (BODMAS, etc).

This is the standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#The_standard_order_of_operations

If your teachers taught you BODMAS and called it the standard order of operations, they are wrong and just because someone has told you an incorrect fact does not require me to pander to it.

Nitefly · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:31

Jokester said:
I did a Masters degree in Engineering, so I did 5 years of maths to degree level, though to be honest I would never write calcs out in that form. In my head this is how I view it to get 1 =

As I said before, to get 1 in that case it has to be explicitly written as 6/(2(1+2)).

Jokester said:
Just to add to that, that's how I would write it out for an answer of 9:-

That's exactly how I view it on instinct, but I can see how that you could construct it either way.

Pawnless Endgame · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:31

You execute brackets first: 1+2=3
You then get 6/2*3
Then 6/6
Then 1

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:32

Hatter The Mad said:
There isn't.

So you're refusing to even consider it, I guess that answers that.

Hatter The Mad · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:33

Nitefly said:
Well he's probably the most intelligent and competent person I know, so I'm going with him on that it's ambiguous and I don't care what any randomer from GD says

Why don't you just work through it yourself? Perhaps ask your amazing genius flatmate to revise the standard order of ops and do it himself.

I'm sure you are capable:

Standard order of operations: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algebra/Order_of_Operations#The_Standard_Order_of_Operations

terms inside parenthesis
exponents and roots
multiplication and division
addition and subtraction

Click to expand...

Left to right.

Do it:

6/2(1+2)

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:33

Monserrat said:
You execute brackets first: 1+2=3
You then get 6/2*3
Then 6/6
Then 1

BUT THATS NOT STANDARD ORDER OF OPERATIONS YOU INNUMERATE PEON :mad:

Hatter The Mad · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:34

guyfawkes5 said:
So you're refusing to even consider it, I guess that answers that.

I have considered it, and there isn't, as I explained in the rest of that post.

Hatter The Mad said:
We weren't taught the standard order of operations at school - we were taught an order of operations (BODMAS, etc).

This is the standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o..._of_operations

If your teachers taught you BODMAS and called it the standard order of operations, they are wrong and just because someone has told you an incorrect fact does not require me to pander to it.

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:35

Seriously, Hatter's putting the titles of Wiki pages in bold and bigger font sizes now?

"Wow gee Hatter, after all this mathematical debate and talk of professions and education, being able to see words bigger on the screen provided the clarity I finally needed! Thanks buddy!"

I've been trapped for enough. Enjoy the 'stew'...

[FnG]magnolia · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:35

I'm going to do a swear soon.

A big one.

So let's play nice, shall we or do I need to take the ban?

guyfawkes5 · 29 Apr 2011 at 12:37

Hatter The Mad said:
I have considered it, and there isn't, as I explained in the rest of that post.

By 'explained' you probably mean 'said what it is and just stated flatly there is no other way of looking at it because I said so'.

But whatever, without the means to physically throttle you I suppose there is no onus on you to ever reconsider.

As I previously said, I'm out and I shall not be investing in your product.

Poll: 6÷2(1+2)

6/2(1+2) = ?

9

1