Osama bin Laden is dead - no graphic/violent images.

AcidHell, I'm trying to work out why you are so absolutely adamant that anyone who gives ear to the conspiracy theories is a nut job, and defend (to hell and back it seems) every goverment action.

You seem to embrace any official word as the godspoken truth, and pass off any questionable doubt as the fantastical imagination of nutcases.

Below is the mans CV and yet you've already called him a nut - despite him being far more qualified, far more knowledgable, and certainly far closer to the core of it all than yourself;

'Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.

Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.'



You almost seem absolutely terrified that our goverments could be deceiving people, to the point where you will blindly refute any proof otherwise. You've said they could release offical photos and videos etc. of Osama dead and what not - and the conpiracy nuts would still not believe it true - but I'm thinking you're exactly that but at the other end of the argument. You wouldn't believe it were it to smack you in the face. I almost see you recoiling in horror at the thought of having been lied to.

Do you honestly believe that the men who have the keys to the world, would not use it to their own benefit? Man is greedy. It's only logical.

What is illogical, is Man with the keys and doing nothing with them. This goes against what Man is.

Why do you believe one man over another? One has far more to gain by lying than the other, and that is the one in charge.
 
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I got to listen to all of his interview earlier, it's almost 2 hours long and Pieczenik certainly doesn't come across as a nut job. It is well worth a listen too whether you believe everything he says, some of what he says, or absolutely non of it. It will do you no harm listening to it.

Deific, this is just my personal opinion but I think for some people to sit and comprehend now that it is a possibility (even a small one) that everything they were told is lies, is too much to bear because they have been backing and supporting the deaths of innocent civilians all along in these illegal wars when others were saying from the start it is all based on absolute lies. That cannot be easy for a persons conscience to take, nor can it be easy for some peoples pride to consider they were wrong all along. Therefore, it seems to be a case of just stick to what you said originally because no one can really prove anything either way.
 
No it's not to much to bear, it's not as if we haven't been lied to before. Or that America have come up with similar plans before, ship of cubas coast for example. The evidence does not fit the theories.

Know you watch it is there anything solid any ideas, or just all vague with nothing to back it up?
 
Deific, this is just my personal opinion but I think for some people to sit and comprehend now that it is a possibility (even a small one) that everything they were told is lies, is too much to bear because they have been backing and supporting the deaths of innocent civilians all along in these illegal wars when others were saying from the start it is all based on absolute lies. That cannot be easy for a persons conscience to take, nor can it be easy for some peoples pride to consider they were wrong all along. Therefore, it seems to be a case of just stick to what you said originally because no one can really prove anything either way.

Probably true for the majority who refute everything. Having gone from cheering in the streets when their candidate got elected for President to hearing how many lives the war they supported have cost and that their president has lied and deceieved them despite them supporting/electing him. Most probably feel like fools and so join the "you're all nutjobs" crowd.

Any reason? Work on the railways and before that for TNT.

Wondered as it may have had a bearing on your opinions, had you served in the army for example. I imagine a lot of people who have served would find it hard to accept that they've simply enabled a corrupt leadership to puppeteer them, at the risk of their own lives, for ill-gotten gains.
 
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No it's not to much to bear, it's not as if we haven't been lied to before. Or that America have come up with similar plans before, ship of cubes coast for example.

Know you watch it is there anything solid any ideas, or just all vague with nothing to back it up?

Most compelling of all really is the fact of who this guy Pieczenik actually is, he isn't just anyone of the street who you can dismiss as a nutter and hope he goes away. There is a lot of substance to what he says, he went on air around 2002 saying then what was happening and now all that has been confirmed. It is also on record that other high officials said and knew similar regarding OBL being dead back then. It is also on record that the CIA was making fake OBL video tapes, former CIA officials admitted to this. He is obviously much closer to the source then anyone on here, and he is blasting those behind 911 and calling for them to be put on trial and for the American people to wake up. Definitely worth listening too because when you hear his tone of voice, his emotions, the guilty names he lists, you can decide for yourself whether he is saying this to make money or for fame, or whether he has lost the plot, OR whether there may be some truth to it.
 
Had to turn question time off, the token muslim worrying about how Islamic his funeral was is doing my head in. Not that she knew the ritual was not 100% in the rules of Islam but she said it made us as barbaric as them.
 
His credentials, tone of voice and like is not evidence and is nothing of the sort, he also knows full well it won't go to court so can say that.

If he has posted substance why won't you post a short list. Really wake up and use some logic. How does tone of voice make what he says valid, a bit of evidence it is not. Ive already siad i don't want to waste an hour for some general ramblings, provide a short list of something interesting and I'll probably watch it. If there is no substance then there is no point at all.
 
His credentials, tone of voice and like is not evidence and is nothing of the sort, he also knows full well it won't go to court so can say that.

If he has posted substance why won't you post a short list. Really wake up and use some logic. How does tone of voice make what he says valid, a bit of evidence it is not. Ive already siad i don't want to waste an hour for some general ramblings, provide a short list of something interesting and I'll probably watch it. If there is no substance then there is no point at all.

I intend to go through it all again and make notes, double checking what he says. When I have done so I will post it, but it certainly is not just ramblings.
 
So you've watched it and can't post any points that might have some validity. :confused:

It was 2 hrs long and almost everything he said was valid, and I also need to dig up his previous interview in 2002 which I haven't heard, which they referred to a few times as being 'on record'.
 
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