Toronto couple defend move to keep baby's sex secret

I wish they were normal, but instead it's normal to ram gender at people from as soon as they are born, before they're born if possible. I mean gender, not sex. Two very different things.

It's normal to be incapable of dealing with the concept of "a person" and instead only being able to deal with whatever collection of sexist stereotyping is normal at the time. Hence the normal first question about a baby - "What did she have?" or "What is she having?" Not even "what's the baby's sex?" - the normal question simply accepts as an uchallengeable predicate that a person's sex is the whole of what they are and that's put on top of the presumption that sex is the same as gender, i.e. whatever collection of sexist stereotypes is normal at the time.

I think they're doing the right thing by trying to protect their child from all that harmful crap, but they can't succeed and their child will be forced into conforming all the more so because they represent a tiny, tiny little crack in the almightly holy faith that the most popular collection of sexist stereotyping is a sex which is a person.
 
Tis a bit odd but I don't see the big fuss tbh... there are far worse parents out there - we have entire council estates full of them in the UK.

So the kid isn't forced to play with either barbie dolls or action man in its first few years - so what its not like they'll keep it from him for long, they're just not forcing any stereotypes regarding gender onto him.
 
It seems like it'll be an awful lot of work... Are they going to keep it a secret from their other children? From a doctor?

I'm also not convinced it'll work out to anything much exciting anyway. Kids turn out every which way along the gender spectrum with all kinds of upbringings. This one will just end up that bit more confused. Great.
 
Don't see the big fuss. I can see what they mean but it's just not going to work out.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the parents actively asked their kids if they wanted pink clothes etc to reinforce their view that boys can do girls stuff too. Which would mean that they are influenced to be opposite of their gender rather than choose themselves.

And it's a boy :)
 
Viewing the source suggests it's thedoc46. I can see the image if I open the URL in the source, but not inline in the page. Weird.
 
Twentyone said:
Don't see the big fuss. I can see what they mean but it's just not going to work out.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the parents actively asked their kids if they wanted pink clothes etc to reinforce their view that boys can do girls stuff too. Which would mean that they are influenced to be opposite of their gender rather than choose themselves.

And it's a boy :)
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Even if they did that, it would still be much more of a choice than not allowing any choice at all.

It wasn't very long ago that pink was gendered strongly masculine in this country.

Gender is all made up and changes like fashion. There's no need for absolutely requiring everyone to be coerced into conforming to it from birth. There's no need for it at all.
 
A bit stupid, the baby is the gender it is born, just might feel like another but facts are facts.
 
MrElve said:
A bit stupid, the baby is the gender it is born, just might feel like another but facts are facts.
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Including the fact that gender is not sex, not fixed at birth and almost always not even anything physical.

This is about gender, not about sex. It doesn't matter how common it is to pass them off as the same thing. They aren't.
 
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Why do i get asked for a password when i enter this thread?

Anyway, i don't see a problem to be honest. Look at it how you will, it's got nothing on what some religious nutjobs force on their children. Just because that's considered normal and this is something new doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
 
A question for those who think that their ideas about gender are what everyone would naturally comply with, i.e. that whatever they currently stereotype onto people is what everyone would naturally comply with anyway.

If you believe that, why are you so opposed to trying to not force it on someone quite so much? If everyone innately conforms to your ideas of gender, you shouldn't see any need for any pressure on them.
 
Whether social norms like only girls wearing pink dresses are 'fair' or not, they exist and they are very powerful. It's much better if a child grows up being accustomed to his gender identity than if he's presented with a false choice - the moment the kid hits school, the pressure to conform will become increasingly overwhelming. What if the boy develops a female gender identity, when 'normal' parenting would have stopped the seed being planted and left him happy with his male gender identity?

Gender dysphoria can destroy people's lives. Some people are naturally 'wired' to develop a gender identity which is opposed to their sex, but anything which can be done to prevent it must be a good idea.
 
MrElve said:
A bit stupid, the baby is the gender it is born, just might feel like another but facts are facts.
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You're confusing two terms. What you are 'born as' (i.e. what you have down below) is your sex. What you feel is your gender.

DarkShadow said:
It's as simple as that. Sex and gender go hand in hand.
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In 99%+ of cases, yes. But it's perfectly possible to develop a gender identity that doesn't match your sex (i.e. to feel that you're a woman in a man's body, or vice versa). None of us can imagine what that's like unless we've been there, but it's not trivial - it causes big, big problems. I don't think anyone really knows why it happens, but there's nothing to say that the brain will always be in harmony with the body.
 
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