Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity.

Glaucus · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:17

jaybee said:
This will never happen. Ever.

Why not? We have had oil producing bacteria for ages. It's just hasn't been able to be scaled up. Not saying this one will work, but I don't see why we wouldn't be able to perfect it at some point.

I see it in the same area as shale extraction, people once thought that would never happen. But there are several large scale plants and we are getting better at it.

Tefal · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:19

Energize said:
Don't believe that this will lead to anything and probably for the best, the environment has been damaged enough through emissions of sulphur dioxide and other toxic byproducts of fossil fuels.

there wouldn't be any sulphur in this though....

Tefal · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:21

AcidHell2 said:
...

Tbh as long as it gets the point across it's fine in most cases it's just for ease of speech half the time.

Vonhelmet · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:23

mufcmark said:
but...but the mark scheme and the textbooks

Explain please.

I meant me!

Psycho Sonny · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:33

DAnDan said:
It is, I'm on my phone posting at the moment so can't post you any links but check some wii pages and I'm sure you'll see.

im assuming you mean wiki pages and not wii?

oh yes good old wikipedia, the most reliable source the world has ever known.

i would love this to be true, and the end of eating up the worlds resources, but i doubt it.

fleming222 · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:35

It's all well and good, unless this bacterium is extremely toxic and resistant to antibiotics.
Or worse still, they evolve into complex organisms and take over the world!

Six7th · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:36

Sounds like an interesting idea! Although I'm sure there's a catch otherwise everyone would be jumping on this.

mufcmark said:
Are there other types of hydrocarbons other than alkenes and alkanes?

Alkynes, which have a C-C triple bond in them.

Glaucus · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:37

Six7th said:
Sounds like an interesting idea! Although I'm sure there's a catch otherwise everyone would be jumping on this.

.

A lot of people are researching this, the catch is no ones been able to mass produce the oil.

DAnDan · 4 Jun 2011 at 21:53

Psycho Sonny said:
im assuming you mean wiki pages and not wii?

oh yes good old wikipedia, the most reliable source the world has ever known.

i would love this to be true, and the end of eating up the worlds resources, but i doubt it.

For an introduction to a topic, wiki is a great tool. Unless you're wanting actual journal papers as references on a forum?

leaskovski · 4 Jun 2011 at 23:30

AcidHell2 said:
Why not? We have had oil producing bacteria for ages. It's just hasn't been able to be scaled up. Not saying this one will work, but I don't see why we wouldn't be able to perfect it at some point.

I see it in the same area as shale extraction, people once thought that would never happen. But there are several large scale plants and we are getting better at it.

Yep, shale extraction... saw this on the news the other day. Couldnt help laugh at the exploding water taps...

The funniest thing about this whole thing is it is called fracking! lol, what the frack!?

trojan698 · 5 Jun 2011 at 06:00

surely its not a fossil fuel but a biofuel?

Selekt0r · 5 Jun 2011 at 07:23

leaskovski said:
lol, what the frack!?

For those of you who are old enough:

$frack.bmp$

Wrathamon · 5 Jun 2011 at 09:21

Selekt0r said:
For those of you who are old enough:

$frack.bmp$

No... that was Frak!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frak!

iraiguana · 5 Jun 2011 at 11:15

I recently completed a research proposal to do something similar to this.

It uses tefal is correct in that it uses modified photosynthesis pathways, to take in CO2 and oxygen, passing over various membranes and using several cofactors to transfer the methyl into a reduced state.

We were aiming for acetic acid instead of ethanol and used pathways such as:

dowie · 5 Jun 2011 at 11:36

Tefal said:
it sunlight.

Photosynthesis normally turns carbon dioxide into sugar and all the carbohydrates the plant needs to build and feed it's self, now though these bacteria also produce a extra hydrocarbon and excrete it.

it's like modified photosynthesis.

And all the mas of the plant life around you shows you how capable that is of turning the co2 in the atmosphere into a solid (or liquid) product.

And this is going to be the obvious flaw/schoolboy error. Same issue with bio diesel from crops etc... you'll require huge areas of land for relatively little production... its just not going to be feasible.

You'll then also get into the whole food vs fuel thing - prices of raw commodities have already risen to the point where its hurting the 3rd world. We'll potentially get into a scenario where in some countries farm land starts getting acquired by big companies to produce crops for bio diesel or perhpas hosting whatever we need to grow these bacteria in whilst parts of the population are struggling/starving.

Glaucus · 5 Jun 2011 at 11:38

dowie said:
And this is going to be the obvious flaw/schoolboy error. Same issue with bio diesel from crops etc... you'll require huge areas of land for relatively little production... its just not going to be feasible.

You'll then also get into the whole food vs fuel thing - prices of raw commodities have already risen to the point where its hurting the 3rd world. We'll potentially get into a scenario where in some countries farm land starts getting acquired by big companies to produce crops for bio diesel or perhpas hosting whatever we need to grow these bacteria in whilst parts of the population are struggling/starving.

Well no. Algea production is 30 times more compared to food crops. It can also be used in land unsuitable for convenital crops as well as grown in salt water. However at the moment price is a major issue. So unless they can find away to make algea growth cheaper, it's a no go ATM. Currently according to wiki it's about $800 a barrel, co pared to oil at around $100. so it has a no long way to come if it can.

Personally I don't think bio fuels will be used, I think we will switch to electric before these technologies are efficient enough. However research will continue and perhaps they will be used for jet fuel and things like the plastic industry.

Jokester · 5 Jun 2011 at 11:55

AcidHell2 said:
Well no. Algea production is 30 times more compared to food crops. It can also be used in land unsuitable for congenital crops as well as grown in salt water. However at the moment price is a major issue. So unless they can find away to make algea growth cheaper, it's a no go ATM.

Indeed, this could be built in coastal deserts with a ready supply of sea water and sunlight. A good comparison is it's effciency compared to pv solar in these areas.

dowie · 5 Jun 2011 at 12:15

AcidHell2 said:
Well no. Algea production is 30 times more compared to food crops. It can also be used in land unsuitable for convenital crops as well as grown in salt water.

We're not talking about Algae production though.

Anyway this bacteria perhpas doesn't have the issue of requiring farmland that would otherwise be used for food - the issue of space required to grow this bacteria and resources required to then extract the fuel still present major flaws.

Glaucus · 5 Jun 2011 at 12:20

dowie said:
We're not talking about Algae production though.

Anyway this bacteria perhpas doesn't have the issue of requiring farmland that would otherwise be used for food - the issue of space required to grow this bacteria and resources required to then extract the fuel still present major flaws.

Ecoli is not a plant, it is going to grow in some sort of growth medium, so it is not going to take away farm land. How is space an issue? There is loads of free space in the world. Most of the world is empty.

aardvark · 5 Jun 2011 at 12:20

i don't see how this could possibly be cost effective - the amount of land required to generate significant amounts would be huge.