Poll: Terry Pratchet what the...

[RDM]

That seems like a pretty stupid distinction. I thought the idea was to assist the person to die with dignity? Shouldnt that include making sure the method is as humane and painless as possible?

I believe it is one of those safeguards that are impossible to implement.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It's like leaving someone in a room with a gun, or a noose, or whatever. You just can't shoot them yourself or hang them yourself. This is why it is such a legally grey area, because you are facilitating death but you are not actively causing it. Or are you?

That s the very clear difference between assisted death and euthanasia. I think even I've mixed these two up when I shouldn't have.

 

[britboy4321]

They also had to record that part on video to prove no force or coercion was used.

The very fact they'd travelled right the way to Switzerland and he'd talked it through with the missus and there was a documentary being made meant there was ALREADY plenty of coercion in the room.

It would take a very brave man to say 'Actually, cancel the documentary, go buy a plane ticket, changed my mind everyone - oops'.

in fact, face it, it's not going to happen. To all but the strongest human beings, there really would be very little choice at this point. The expectation for a living person is they top themselves.

I never want to live in a society where at ANY point the expectation is you really should be topping yourself ..

 

[Craig1981]

I believe it is one of those safeguards that are impossible to implement.

Really? Get them to sign a waiver, with at least one witness present, that absolved the person administering the pain killer from any blame. If the person is incapable of writing, have them dictate it into a tape recorded. Or have the entire thing filmed as proof as well.

Just seems like their all too chicken **** to actually take part in the actual killing part.

 

[Vonhelmet]

The very fact they'd travelled right the way to Switzerland and he'd talked it through with the missus and there was a documentary being made meant there was ALREADY plenty of coercion in the room.

It would take a very brave man to say 'Actually, cancel the documentary, go buy a plane ticket, changed my mind everyone - oops'.

in fact, face it, it's not going to happen. To all but the strongest human beings, there really would be very little choice at this point. The expectation for a living person is they top themselves.

I never want to live in a society where at ANY point the expectation is you really should be topping yourself ..

I can only assume that you have no willpower and are projecting this onto everyone else around you.

 

[Andy_82]

Why would it though? Most people who are pro the idea are so as they believe a person should have control over how they die, no-one wants to give that choice to anyone but the person themselves.

I would like to choose how I die, I would not like someone else to be able to choose it.

Most people would feel the same, so why would we pass a further change to allow that to happen?

I'm not saying we would, but attitudes change over time, i've noticed changes in the last few years torwards disabled people, I hardly used to get shouted at by the general public at all, now it happens much more frequently. I know this isn't really related and is only my experience, but I do fear for those who can't speek up for themselves.

It probably would never happen althouth I hope euthanasia is allowed with strict controls, no-one should have to live with unbearable pain.

I have seen alziemers and dementia up close, leave it to late and the patient wont be able to remember their wishes, do it to early and you miss what time you have left. It is a horrible illness. And unfortunately is likely to become much more common with and living long and aging population.

 

[Burnsy2023]

The very fact they'd travelled right the way to Switzerland and he'd talked it through with the missus and there was a documentary being made meant there was ALREADY plenty of coercion in the room.

I think everyone in that room would have been relieved for him to have said that he didn't want to go through with it - his wife especially. Although I wasn't there, I see no evidence of coercion.

 

[RDM]

I can only assume that you have no willpower and are projecting this onto everyone else around you.

He seems to do that a lot. It seems that everyone shares his avarice too and only put pets down because of money.

 

[Pighardia]

It is not a very nice world you live in Britboy, where people are having their pets put down for financial reasons(a ridiculous remark!) and people are topping themselves to avoid embarrasment

 

[hanluc]

Very moving and upsetting. I don't think anyone has right to tell a person with a terminal illness who wishes to end their life that they can't, and must endure the effects of that illness.

 

[britboy4321]

I can only assume that you have no willpower and are projecting this onto everyone else around you.

I think an 89 year old lady that has had terminal cancer for 3 years may not have too much willpower to be honest.

So, she deserves to die? More 'collateral damage'? How much 'collateral damage' (nice speak for 'society putting people in a position where they feel they need to kill themselves') are you OK with? A few hundred a year? A few thousand?

 

[Vonhelmet]

I think an 89 year old lady that has had terminal cancer for 3 years may not have too much willpower to be honest.

So, she deserves to die? More 'collateral damage'? How much 'collateral damage' (nice speak for 'society putting people in a position where they feel they need to kill themselves') are you OK with? A few hundred a year? A few thousand?

I didn't say she deserves to die. I don't think anyone said that. But should she have the choice to die if she wants to? I don't know, to be honest.

Anyway. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that any documentary like this will be under massive controls precisely to avoid the kind of coercion that you are talking about, and that the subject of the documentary probably wanted to showcase their experience. I find it very hard to believe that the BBC rocked up at Dignitas and said "HAI GUYS WE GONNA FILM SOMEONE DYING LOL!" without jumping through numerous hoops to get permission to do so.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I think an 89 year old lady that has had terminal cancer for 3 years may not have too much willpower to be honest.

So, she deserves to die? More 'collateral damage'? How much 'collateral damage' (nice speak for 'society putting people in a position where they feel they need to kill themselves') are you OK with? A few hundred a year? A few thousand?

You're ranting about a completely hypothetical issue as if it absolutely will happen.

 

[Glaucus]

You wouldn't save yourself due to a documentary? Of course you would and a documentary would be just as good. You just get a different point of view.

 

[britboy4321]

The fact that he was suddenly craving water was his body desperately trying to dilute the poison to survive.

Therefore indirectly, by beggin for water, he was making, indeed begging, to give his body ANY chance to continue living.

They said 'Nope .. no water for you'.


Honestly, does no-one have a problem with what is happening in that room?

 

[Burnsy2023]

The fact that he was suddenly craving water was his body desperately trying to dilute the poison to survive.

Therefore indirectly, by beggin for water, he was making, indeed begging, to give his body ANY chance to continue living.

They said 'Nope .. no water for you'.


Honestly, does no-one have a problem with what is happening in that room?

That was an autonomic reaction, his body wanted the water, not his mind.

 

[hanluc]

The fact that he was suddenly craving water was his body desperately trying to dilute the poison to survive.

Therefore indirectly, by beggin for water, he was making, indeed begging, to give his body ANY chance to continue living.

They said 'Nope .. no water for you'.


Honestly, does no-one have a problem with what is happening in that room?

I didn't see it that way, I don't think he asked for water because he changed his mind about dying, rather ease the effects of the poison.

 

[mdb08]

The very fact they'd travelled right the way to Switzerland and he'd talked it through with the missus and there was a documentary being made meant there was ALREADY plenty of coercion in the room.

It would take a very brave man to say 'Actually, cancel the documentary, go buy a plane ticket, changed my mind everyone - oops'.

in fact, face it, it's not going to happen. To all but the strongest human beings, there really would be very little choice at this point. The expectation for a living person is they top themselves.

I never want to live in a society where at ANY point the expectation is you really should be topping yourself ..

If you actually watched the documentary, they were invited along to the proceedings during the programme, thus no previous coercion from the documentary. Surely it would be more beneficial for the documentary to have shown the other side of it to, them going their with the intent to do said act but choosing not to.

 

[britboy4321]

That was an autonomic reaction, his body wanted the water, not his mind.

So let me get this straight .,. now you're saying that beyond a certain point .. when you're still alive, you're no longer 'allowed' to recieve medication to attempt to keep living? Even if that medication is a simple glass of water?

You're not allowed to change your mind any more? Is that the gig?

 

[Vonhelmet]

So let me get this straight .,. now you're saying that beyond a certain point .. when you're still alive, you're no longer 'allowed' to recieve medication to attempt to keep living? Even if that medication is a simple glass of water?

You're not allowed to change your mind any more? Is that the gig?

Giving him water at that point could have done considerably more harm than good, as someone pointed out earlier. Diluting the poison or stopping it's effects short could have instead left him with permanent brain damage.