Poll: Terry Pratchet what the...

Euthanasia?

  • I'm in favour of assisted death for anyone who chooses it

    Votes: 252 41.4%
  • I'm in favour provided the person is suffering from a terminal condition

    Votes: 301 49.4%
  • I'm not in favour of assisted death

    Votes: 31 5.1%
  • I hold no opinion about it

    Votes: 25 4.1%

  • Total voters
    609
Happy to bump off people who are really nothing more than old.

They are happy to kill plenty of people who are just "weary of life"

http://jme.bmj.com/content/34/11/810

If I was almost deaf, almost blind, no-longer mobile, having to be fed and bathed by other people, but otherwise healthy enough to live another 20 years, can't say I couldn't see the appeal in cashing in my cheque early.

Btw, you never did answer the question of if you were religious.
 
Again, I don't see the issue.

You believe that as long as people consent to being killed there is no crime to answer?

Let us take the case of Armin Meiwes. He killed and ate a victim in Germany. The victim was willing and in fact volunteered to be killed and eaten. By your logic there is no crime to answer and Armin Meiwes shouldn't be in jail.

Interesting.
 
Forgot this was on, downloading from the iPlayer now.

Though I'm torn between the top 2 options. People with a terminal illness or as is the case with Alzheimer's, something that will inevitably cripple them mentally, should be free to choose. Problem with the latter is it can be really tricky to judge whether they still want it once the condition worsens or whether its just the family who feel they can't cope with it any longer.

As for the rest... serious grey area that would need proper monitoring. As said it would be stupid to allow people who are simply depressed to sign up for it but then they can just commit suicide anyway and whose to stop them?
 
If I was almost deaf, almost blind, no-longer mobile, having to be fed and bathed by other people, but otherwise healthy enough to live another 20 years, can't say I couldn't see the appeal in cashing in my cheque early.

Btw, you never did answer the question of if you were religious.

I don't see how me being religious or not makes any difference to the point in hand.
 
You believe that as long as people consent to being killed there is no crime to answer?

Let us take the case of Armin Meiwes. He killed and ate a victim in Germany. The victim was willing and in fact volunteered to be killed and eaten. By your logic there is no crime to answer and Armin Meiwes shouldn't be in jail.

Interesting.

Killing and eating someone is not the same as a regulated system of assisted suicide. The guy who wanted to be eaten clearly would not have passed the psyche evaluation.
 
Happy to bump off people who are really nothing more than old.

They didn't. The people in question made a concious decision to end their own lives, dignitas assisted them in that process. Not to mention that to say they were "nothing more than old" is somewhat disengenious don't you think?

wiki said:
Although not terminally ill, Downes had been coping with increasing deafness and near total blindness for many years. He had become almost totally dependent on his wife after his health declined following a hip replacement. Lady Downes was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer metastasised to her liver and given weeks to live.[8]

Lady Downes wrote a letter to family explaining that she had decided against treatment and that:


all the plans that need to be made had been.
Now, I must tell you that even though I had hoped to be around a bit longer, death doesn’t worry me at all.

I have no religion and as far as I am concerned it will be an "offswitch" so after you have thought about it a bit don’t worry.

It has been a happy and interesting life and I have no regrets. I have no idea how long I will last but I send love to you all and your extensive families.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

With love to you all, Joan.[9]

Sir Edward, aged 85, and Lady Downes, aged 74, ended their lives by assisted suicide at the Dignitas clinic in Zürich, Switzerland, on 10 July 2009.[10] Although Joan did not want the children present, Dignitas encouraged it and "Ted and Joanie" were reported to be pleased when the time came. Their children issued a statement speaking of "serious health problems" suffered by the couple.[11][12] A statement issued by the couple's children said that while Downes could have gone on living with his deafness and blindness, he did not want to do so after his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer.[2]
 
You believe that as long as people consent to being killed there is no crime to answer?

Let us take the case of Armin Meiwes. He killed and ate a victim in Germany. The victim was willing and in fact volunteered to be killed and eaten. By your logic there is no crime to answer and Armin Meiwes shouldn't be in jail.

Interesting.

If it follows the full procedure with checks with medical professionals for mental and physical well being, then I don't see it as a problem.

It seems both you and britboy insist on going for the most extreme examples possible as a way to back up your claims, 99.999999% of people who do this will not be eaten.
 
I don't see how me being religious or not makes any difference to the point in hand.

Because it is quite possible that you are objecting purely on religious grounds. If so that is certainly your right, but what right do you have to use your religious beliefs to deny something to others that may not share them?
 
Killing and eating someone is not the same as a regulated system of assisted suicide. The guy who wanted to be eaten clearly would not have passed the psyche evaluation.

You and others are suggesting that we should all be allowed to choose the time and manner of our own death. My point highlights the absurdity of that. There is no logical difference between choosing to be killed by poison or by being eaten.

Masochism is not a mental health condition. It is a sexual predilection. If people can choose the manner of their own death why is that limited to a modest flat in Switzerland by poison?

You say the guy who was eaten would not have passed a psyche evaluation. Do you have any evidence to back that up? Do you have any qualifications to show how you can come to that conclusion?
 
Because it is quite possible that you are objecting purely on religious grounds. If so that is certainly your right, but what right do you have to use your religious beliefs to deny something to others that may not share them?

You are trying to discredit my perfectly well argued points by trying to draw in something which you are making an assumption on.

Shame on you.

My opinion on this is not derived from any religious belief - it is derived from my own logical reasoning and a sense of morality.
 
Absolutely. They are very different things.

Why, because you say they are? The only end result is the same, the wishes of the deceased are the same.

I am genuinely interested to hear your rationale.

I am not alone in my thinking - a quick google brought this up.

The policy of the Dignitas suicide clinic exposes the dangerous logic of libertarian arguments for assisted suicide or voluntary euthanasia. Dignitas assisted Sir Edward Downes to kill himself, even though he was not terminally ill. This was entirely in accord with the view of its founder, Ludwig Minelli, that anyone with “mental capacity” should have the right to kill him or herself with assistance — and presumably also without it.

It follows from this that not just the terminally ill, but the chronically ill or disabled, the grievously bereaved, the philosophically miserable and the amorously unsuccessful should have the same right. After all, if the individual is the sole arbiter of the value of his or her own life, and if some adult reckons that living is no longer worth the candle, then who may gainsay them?

It also follows that when someone should volunteer to die in the masochistic ecstasy of being mutilated and eaten — as happened five years ago in Germany in the case of Armin Meiwes — the law should be silent, no crime having been committed.

The problem is that what fends off interference also generates indifference and carelessness. If my life only has the worth that I accord it, then it has no objective value; and if it has no objective value, then why should anyone else care for it?

Edward Downes’s son and Melanie Reid (report and commentary, July 15) are therefore wrong: the assertion of the individual’s absolute right “to choose what they consider to be a good death” is not simply a private matter that affects no one else. Its libertarian logic undermines society’s commitment to support fellow members in adversity — and encourages the abandonment of the ailing.

Professor Nigel Biggar

Director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics and Public Life,

Christ Church, Oxford
 
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There is no logical difference between choosing to be killed by poison or by being eaten.

Do you honestly and seriously think that? If so, dear god you have a warped sense of morality.

Masochism is not a mental health condition. It is a sexual predilection. If people can choose the manner of their own death why is that limited to a modest flat in Switzerland by poison?

Sadomasochism is about pain, not death. My who argument is about ending pain and suffering not about pleasure. I'm worried you can't see that.

You say the guy who was eaten would not have passed a psyche evaluation. Do you have any evidence to back that up? Do you have any qualifications to show how you can come to that conclusion?

I hope that any psyche evaluation would pick that up. The evaluation needs to be rigorous enough to do that.
 
Why, because you say they are? The only end result is the same, the wishes of the deceased are the same.

It's not about the end result, it's about the rationale behind the action. Like I said, it's about ending pain and suffering, not about pleasure or some warped sexual desire.
 
You are trying to discredit my perfectly well argued points by trying to draw in something which you are making an assumption on.

Not at all, I was just suggesting why others may be interested in your religious views (which are quite firmly Christian if I recall?). I was certainly not using it to discredit your points as it is much easier to do that without even refering to your religion. For example the deliberate misrepresentation of Mr and Mrs Downes as "just old" and your using of spurious examples of odd human behaviour as relevant to the topic of assisted dying.

Shame on you.

Considering the above tactics, no, really, shame on you.

My opinion on this is not derived from any religious belief - it is derived from my own logical reasoning and a sense of morality.

Your logical reasoning seems almost as flawed as britboy and I would question the morality of anyone that is happy to force people to live on in pain without giving them a solid reason as to why they should.
 
Do you honestly and seriously think that? If so, dear god you have a warped sense of morality.

I believe it is you who is morally lacking. I believe that all murder is wrong. You are the one who is trying to pick and choose which particular forms of murder are acceptable.


Sadomasochism is about pain, not death. My who argument is about ending pain and suffering not about pleasure. I'm worried you can't see that.

Well for a start I said masochism not sadomasochism. If someone is suffering from emotional pain and torment and wants to end it then by your logic who are you are I to judge how they do that?

Dignitas will bump off anyone who decides they want to go and they are able to make a rational decision on that. Dignitas has no requirement for people to be ill or suffering.

I think that it is logical to assume based on the facts the the eaten man was deriving some sort of sexual satisfaction - why else would he have tried to eat his own penis? How can you say that he would not have preferred to that to taking a foul tasting poison such as that shown last night?


I hope that any psyche evaluation would pick that up. The evaluation needs to be rigorous enough to do that.


So we are onto hope and speculation now.
 
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