Actually, I'm far closer to an Orange book or classical liberal than a Tory if you really need a pigeon hole to put me in
Which is still a Tory, yeah?
Wasn't Thatcher one of them too?
I've not pigeon holed you, you done it to yourself.
30th of June strikes.
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Which is still a Tory, yeah?
Wasn't Thatcher one of them too?
I've not pigeon holed you, you done it to yourself.
Which is still a Tory, yeah?
Wasn't Thatcher one of them too?
I've not pigeon holed you, you done it to yourself.
No, it isn't, and your ignorance of politics is not my problem.
you certainly act like it
exactly the political system doesnt work, as people are being elected with hardly any turnout, but you cant then scald the unions for achieving a greater turnout.
your probably just jealous because daddy owns a business and doesnt like to see the workers gaining a bit of power
Marx said that the Proletariat would overthrow the bourgeoisie and its about bloody time
Grow up.
Ok, lets say the working class throw the middle class like you seem to want, then what?? Got any plans once the 'people' have overthrown the 'oppressors '?
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Actually, I'm far closer to an Orange book or classical liberal than a Tory if you really need a pigeon hole to put me in
If I've understood some of your posts in other threads would I be right in thinking that you'd have no problem with worker-owned companies / private companies with genuine worker representation? It would then be up to those companies to prosper.
Would you be ok with a trade union representing private company employees who democratically make a collective decision based on over 50% of its members voting in favour of any such action?
you certainly act like it
exactly the political system doesnt work, as people are being elected with hardly any turnout, but you cant then scald the unions for achieving a greater turnout.
your probably just jealous because daddy owns a business and doesnt like to see the workers gaining a bit of power
Marx said that the Proletariat would overthrow the bourgeoisie and its about bloody time
To be fair, with PCS, they are expecting support from its members for what 19% of its membership want. 250k ballots issued and 50k "Yes" out of 81k returned, approx. So the ballot is in support, but its a bit apathetic looking. The walk out will include more than this I have no doubt, but from an engagement and validity of mandate perspective it cannot continue as if anything people like Dolph would get their way.
This is a new low as far as I am concerned, but I think there are various reasons.
No, he wouldn't I'd guess with near certainty. Bullying, blackmail extortion and agenda. That's all he can see.
It's not even that anymore now, it more an attitude of "they've got something I haven't....so I don't want them to have it."
I think the major problem is that Thatcher installed in a generation of people the mantra of "im alright so **** the others" and as such we have such apathy and lack of unionism, the masses are more concerned with voting on x-factor than a majorly important union ballot.
In my workplace there are many members who wont strike or follow union directives, they are only in it as an insurance policy, this is why the unions have no power, is because basically people dont give a **** about the cause or the long term, as long as they are OK
The chances of a grown up debate in this thread are slim to non-existent, too much partisanship going on.
That's how it comes across.
That's ignoring the mythology in the comparisons or equal analysis either.
It's an uphill struggle though, and one you will not win.
It suits me though, I'm happy for the UK framework to fall apart if you couldn't tell already
Indeed.
No I think they do, except I think they've wised up to the fact that a lot of the times it is futile if you are stonewalled anyway.
There has been on off strikes for years covering various subjects, and it's taken its toll. There have been wins, losses and slightly dubious fieldings. It can't go on forever in this climate however.
Thatcher is to blame for legacy stuff, she isn't relevent to this any longer. Membership is high, turnout is low.
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oh but she is because Cameron is right out of her school, his ideology is very similar, look at all the benefit changes, attacks on workers, keep the poor, poor stuff while letting rich party donors get off tax free, the free market NHS **** its all very thatcherite
All Westminster politicians are of this school now.
Once Red Ed has been shoved aside, your back into the centre right where Blair was.
Thatchers greatest achievement was changing Labours mind, making them drop Clause IV and spawning Tony Blair.
There is no getting back from it, only through it. Cats chance in hell comes to mind...
couldnt agree more, we have the tories or the tories, however should unite pull its labour party funding the party is finished, labour has real financial problems as many unions simply havent forgiven them for what they did in power, this paves the way for a real alternative or perhaps a true left opposition
There is no left in Wesminster dominant UK politics full stop.
People like Dolph want to scream how there is a massive difference from the rooftop, in reality that difference amounts to a few % of public spending a year and very little else if you scratch away the ideoligcal rhetoric and look at the policy effect.
Or they try to summarise the ineptitude of right leaning New Labour as being inherrent to the 'left', where as that is people trying to foist Westminster structural faults onto the political spectrum. When the 'right' suffer the same problems, it's the 'civil service' or the 'left' who caused it.
Rinse repeat, and you've got a bunch of self serving politicians who knows the system doesn't work but can't do anything else but string you along with them in the hunt for vanity.
Woohoo.
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It suits me though, I'm happy for the UK framework to fall apart if you couldn't tell already
You know, I'm >< this close to doing the same and sitting back and watching it hit the wall and see where we end up.
If our members give our branch the same turnout in their upcoming vote as the civil service side have done then they will likely have one less rep to support them (wont happen in our branch though, we've historically had the best turnout of any PCS branch).
People think I'm some sort of tartan clad braveheart gangster tearing it about in some wee Jock mobile with the ginger haired C U jimmy hat on with the corries blasting out the stereo shooting arrows at any unfortunate English in my path.
I'm nothing like it, I simply can't stand the way centralised Government and UK politics "works". It's depressing, self serving despised venal incompetent and at times borderline xenophobic.
The political spectrum has been purposefully distorted, and there is no prospective Government with the long term ambitions or solutions to avert our downwards spiral.
As for the balot, it is symptomatic of numerous problems, a war of attrition, the economic climate, the prospect of an achievable outcome, poor communication and proponent arguments.
People are worn down, when there are problems all over the shop in your work - not just these - you start to wonder what's the point to it all.
See the people surveys for example, I mean how depressing.
Oh, and some good news. While we are all getting stabbed in the back with inflation and wage freezes, Senior Civil Servants are in line for bonuses and potential remuneration increases this year.
We are all in it together.
In that very special British way.
Yes, but this doesn't require a trade union, indeed it's often counter productive as trade unions are often political entities acting on ideology.
An internal employee council is much more effective.
50% of employees and I'll happily agree.