30th of June strikes.

Dolph said:
Yes, but this doesn't require a trade union, indeed it's often counter productive as trade unions are often political entities acting on ideology.

An internal employee council is much more effective.



50% of employees and I'll happily agree.
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Why don't other unions away from trade attract your critique?
 
Here's one for you - who would you rather have as PM; Cameron or Dolph? Strange as it sounds, i'm inclined to say Dolph if only because he has a clue what he's doing and doesn't bicker like a school child every time there's a debate.
 
Dolph said:
50% of employees and I'll happily agree.
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How about per sector/account? I.e. a lot of companies are structured by account - i.e. "Vodafone account", "RBS account", "Shell account". Employees on those accounts feel an affinity and loyalty to that account and the account managers but not the actual parent company.

PermaBanned said:
Here's one for you - who would you rather have as PM; Cameron or Dolph? Strange as it sounds, i'm inclined to say Dolph if only because he has a clue what he's doing and doesn't bicker like a school child every time there's a debate.
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If boiling my own eyes in oil wasn't also an option then Dolph.


It's not as hard a choice as you make out.
 
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PermaBanned said:
Here's one for you - who would you rather have as PM; Cameron or Dolph? Strange as it sounds, i'm inclined to say Dolph if only because he has a clue what he's doing and doesn't bicker like a school child every time there's a debate.
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No, he'd just come in, call people names, dismiss valid arguments through his own ideological blinkers and act like all the other Tories that have come and gone. ;)

He's a very very smart chap, wedded to some dodgy thinking with abrasive traits to dismissing things at times.

I think Camerons quite good actually, as an individual. Politically I can't buy into British conservatism regardless who it is.
 
Biohazard said:
No, he'd just come in, call people names, dismiss valid arguments through his own ideological blinkers and act like all the other Tories that have come and gone. ;)

He's a very very smart chap, wedded to some dodgy thinking with abrasive traits to dismissing things at times.

I think Camerons quite good actually, as an individual. Politically I can't buy into British conservatism regardless who it is.
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Haha! Always nice to see there is a differing opinion even though others would tar us with the same brush :-)
 
amigafan2003 said:
How about per sector/account? I.e. a lot of companies are structured by account - i.e. "Vodafone account", "RBS account", "Shell account". Employees on those accounts feel an affinity and loyalty to that account and the account managers but not the actual parent company.
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By sector/directorate would seem a reasonable compromise.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
They have ****ed off the police big time but their options as how to confront it are limited, striking or encouraging unrest being the no 1 off limit.
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Which is of course, counted upon.

Had a discussion with a few boys in the local police club (they sign us in), and they weren't happy at all in various manifestations. One was in Glasgow where student protestors briefly kettled them in :o :D He felt sympathy for them. When kids are shouting 'it's your job next' it's a hard not to reflect I guess.

I have a lot of respect for the professionalism of the police force in this repsect, you're 'damned' for entering that political hot potato however.
 
Dolph said:
By sector/directorate would seem a reasonable compromise.
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Yeah, that's how we work. Our "account" has 64% union membership. We'd not meet your "50% of the workforce in favour" criteria though, unless we implemented some really draconian rules.

Even at our lst dispute, 67% turnout and 82% yes vote would have only put us at "36% of all employees voted yes".

I'd be interested in your ideas on how to encourage active participation in ballots though, given the UK's populace (not just Union members) apathy towards democratic process. If MP's can't garner more than a 60% turnout in an election I'm not sure how Union leaders are meant to do better.
 
You make them relevent again.

How, well I don't know. Well I do a bit, but I'm not here to profess it neither is it likely. The two - political and trade unionist engagement or disenfranchisement - are both interrelated.

Fix UK politics, and thus the economy, you'll fix trade unionism.
 
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Biohazard said:
He's a very very smart chap, wedded to some dodgy thinking with abrasive traits to dismissing things at times.
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I'm confused, are you talking about Dolph or yourself here? :D

Biohazard said:
I think Camerons quite good actually, as an individual. Politically I can't buy into British conservatism regardless who it is.
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To be honest the best thing the Conservatives have going for them is that they are not Labour, they are slightly better since they got rid of most of the seriously right wing to UKIP but still too, well conservative (with a small c) for my liking.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Yeah, that's how we work. Our "account" has 64% union membership. We'd not meet your "50% of the workforce in favour" criteria though, unless we implemented some really draconian rules.

Even at our lst dispute, 67% turnout and 82% yes vote would have only put us at "36% of all employees voted yes".

I'd be interested in your ideas on how to encourage active participation in ballots though, given the UK's populace (not just Union members) apathy towards democratic process. If MP's can't garner more than a 60% turnout in an election I'm not sure how Union leaders are meant to do better.
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Perhaps the solution doesn't lie in industrial action then.

I'm still all in favour of binding pendulum arbitration myself.
 
RDM said:
I'm confused, are you talking about Dolph or yourself here? :D
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Dolph.

I too am very very clever chap, but I'm not quite as well read.. I think he's got an age gap on me anyway ;) :D



RDM said:
To be honest the best thing the Conservatives have going for them is that they are not Labour, they are slightly better since they got rid of most of the seriously right wing to UKIP but still too, well conservative (with a small c) for my liking.
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They are not the brand "Labour" would be a better way of putting it, as that party does not stand for its founding principles any longer.

It's like them branding themself "Scottish Labour". There is no party on the register under that name. The only party, New Labour, is HQ'd in London, and the internal divisions are not distinct seperate identities like they play on.

The conservative party still have a good little section with the old cronies hanging about, but I don't know. It doesn't matter which way both parties approach it, the muddled end result normally looks quite similar.

I don't buy either argument because of it. UKIP would be a good start for the UK I think if they weren't off their face with what can only be described as xenophobia. Farrage brings valid points, but his hatred for Beglium while being at times a bit funny discredits the whole lot.

To improve the UK you need to improve the grass roots of the parties, and try to rebuke the influence from the beligerant and Establishment driven old cronies.
 
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Biohazard said:
Which is of course, counted upon.

Had a discussion with a few boys in the local police club (they sign us in), and they weren't happy at all in various manifestations. One was in Glasgow where student protestors briefly kettled them in :o :D He felt sympathy for them. When kids are shouting 'it's your job next' it's a hard not to reflect I guess.

I have a lot of respect for the professionalism of the police force in this repsect, you're 'damned' for entering that political hot potato however.
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Nature of the beast.

Saying that, I wouldn't strike even if I could.
 
Pneumonic said:
Its about time workers in the public sector joined the real world...

the vast majority of private sector workers have accepted no or limited pay rises over the past 3 - 4 years... the vast majority of private sector workers no longer have final salary pension schemes as they are unfeasible to maintain...

The public sector are still being offered a damn good pension scheme and the majority of them have negotiated pay increases...

Perhaps instead of making required changes to redress the book balances we should make 25% of the public sector redundant so that we can continue to maintain these unfeasible level of benefits?

Jesus some people need to get a grip.. and try living in the real world
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Where have you been for the last 3-4 years?

The civil service has been laying of staff for years in high numbers and pay rises, dont get me started on that. The most I've seen doesn't even cover cost of living increases, in real terms my salary hasn't kept up with the rest of the private sectors increases.

The pensions of which they have already started hacking away at for the last 10 years isnt that great sure its better than private. But most schemes have closed final salary pensions to new staff years ago.

WE live in the REAL WORLD and its no gold covered existance like some think. Oh yeah and before you start with more, I would like to point to the various stuff I have seen where the PRIVATE sector companies are riping off the PUBLIC sector over the prices of contracts and goods.

I find it highly funny when the private sector moans about the public as they get stupid good money of the government by bleeding it this way.

If your in a private company and not in a union, I think your crazy. Folks should stand up for their rights in an sector or your just going to get walked over cause they know they have you by the short and curles.
 
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