More wedding photos, 'Colonial Africa' theme...

Rojin · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:10

I'm sorry, could someone point out the racist part? Are black people not allowed to work in a service industry anymore? There is no evidence that black people were explicitly employed in order to be depicted in a derogatory manner. Lets stop the employment of black people just in case it might be misconstrued as bringing back the empire...

If the couple did indeed intend to be-little the staff and acted badly towards them, then I agree that it is out of order. I suspect though that this isn't the case, and it's purely something being seen for what it is not. If all the staff were white, nothing would be being said about it at all.

ScarySquirrel · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:13

Every white South African I have met has been a racist. Ok, only met 4 of them, but they were all racist.

sillyswede · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:24

I can totally see what you're saying Rojin, and the waiting staff were probably greatful for the work, but don't you think the theme of the wedding alone sends the wrong message?

bigredshark · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:24

Rojin said:
I'm sorry, could someone point out the racist part? Are black people not allowed to work in a service industry anymore? There is no evidence that black people were explicitly employed in order to be depicted in a derogatory manner. Lets stop the employment of black people just in case it might be misconstrued as bringing back the empire...

Whatever the intention, and I don't believe they could possibly have been stupid enough to ask for black staff to serve them, it doesn't take a particularly brilliant mind to see the potential to cause offence by creating a replica of what was a very racist environment that existed for real not that long ago.

I don't really think they meant it in a 'black people exist to serve us' way but they created the visuals. I mean, black waiting staff would be one thing - dressed up like that? Come on, it's not hard to see how it ends.

It is South Africa and actually getting white staff for that kind of event would be difficult which adds to the idea they didn't really mean it but still, you don't do that, it's offensive to some people and it's not hard to see why. There are black people of working age in SA who will have been subject to terrible treatment under apartheid, reminding them of it at all, let alone using it as a 'fun' theme for a wedding is a bit insensitive no?

bigredshark · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:31

ScarySquirrel said:
Every white South African I have met has been a racist. Ok, only met 4 of them, but they were all racist.

This is going way off topic but some of them have nasty circumstances, there is a decent number of white south africans who have no other cultural or national identiy - by which I mean both us and the dutch, who are between us responsible for them being there, disown them and offer no possibility of citizenship.

They are utterly unwanted by their own country and, if you're them, the younger, future leaders of the ANC like Julius Malema are terrifying characters (seriously, praising Mugabe, talking about chucking the whites out). When your own country doesn't want you and nobody else will give you citizenship it's easy to start blaming people (ironically the same reason for the rise of the militant ANC youth).

A topic for elsewhere really but end result, lots of racists on both sides, with legitimate and otherwise complaints. Not nice.

* Full disclosure and all - my girlfriend is South African and hence I have a personal interest.

Rojin · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:36

I can see your point of view, but I just think this case is being sensationalised. If you go on a safari today, you will most likely be guided and served by black people. The lodges you stay at you will most likely be served by black people, and most will have a uniform... Should this be stopped?

Apartheid came in after the second world war (I think?), colonial Britain in South Africa was way before that. Whilst apartheid undoubtedly followed on from European colonisation the old colonial days were not apartheid.

bigredshark · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:52

My basic argument there boils down to necessary / choice - it's a job they do because they're good at it (and need a job) and get well paid for it. Race doesn't come into it and the entire activity isn't contrived to resemble colonial and apartheid repression. Whereas the wedding, likely the staff would have been black no matter what the theme and the guests would have been white but choosing a theme like that (and that's key - they *chose* a theme which obviously resembled something unsavory from the past when they didn't have to).

A safari looks like a safari and today, no matter the race of your guides and other staff it's not got any particular racial connotations. Anyway, enough on this one probably.

An Exception · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:56

ScarySquirrel said:
Every white South African I have met has been a racist. Ok, only met 4 of them, but they were all racist.

That's a rather bigotry statement in itself...
Before casting judgement, maybe go over there and see what it's like in their shoes.

Rojin · 13 Jul 2011 at 15:59

bigredshark said:
My basic argument there boils down to necessary / choice - it's a job they do because they're good at it (and need a job) and get well paid for it. Race doesn't come into it and the entire activity isn't contrived to resemble colonial and apartheid repression. Whereas the wedding, likely the staff would have been black no matter what the theme and the guests would have been white but choosing a theme like that (and that's key - they *chose* a theme which obviously resembled something unsavory from the past when they didn't have to).

A safari looks like a safari and today, no matter the race of your guides and other staff it's not got any particular racial connotations. Anyway, enough on this one probably.

I don't see the British Empire as unsavoury, that's easy for me to say though being British admittedly!

Ejizz said:
That's are rather bigotry statement in itself...

He only said all the ones he has met are racist, not all white south africans.

An Exception · 13 Jul 2011 at 16:03

Rojin said:
He only said all the ones he has met are racist, not all white south africans.

It's no different to the below comment, and I think most people would agree that's not a very pleasant statement to make.

ScarySquirrel said:
Every black South African I have met has been a racist. Ok, only met 4 of them, but they were all racist.

Andy90 · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:00

Could a Mod please consider moving this thread out of the Photographic section and into General Discussion, where I am sure it should really reside.

Phate · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:08

I've quite enjoyed reading the thread to be honest...infact it may be more suited to SC

RedDanDoc · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:19

Andy90 said:
Could a Mod please consider moving this thread out of the Photographic section and into General Discussion, where I am sure it should really reside.

How so ? we are discussing a photographic theme on a board devoted to photography.

An Exception · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:29

^^^
It's more political than photographic, we are hardly talking about the light and composition are we? Therefore it belongs in a different section of the forum.

RedDanDoc · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:32

Ejizz said:
^^^
It's more political than photographic, we are hardly talking about the light and composition are we? Therefore it belongs in a different section of the forum.

Were talking about a theme.

Rojin · 13 Jul 2011 at 17:45

Ejizz said:
It's no different to the below comment, and I think most people would agree that's not a very pleasant statement to make.

No it's not, and no I don't have a problem with that statement either. It's just that, a statement of someone's personal experience.

An Exception · 13 Jul 2011 at 18:06

RedDanDoc said:
Were talking about a theme.

No your talking about history and politics, I haven't read ANYTHING about the photography aspect of the wedding, so the thread needs to be moved, or we need to be on topic.

OG · 13 Jul 2011 at 18:09

Ejizz said:
No your talking about history and politics, I haven't read ANYTHING about the photography aspect of the wedding, so the thread needs to be moved, or we need to be on topic.

Seeing as we can't actually see the pictures any more, I think the theme is more than acceptable to talk about.

I honestly don't see a problem with it, yes I can see how and why would over react to it in the most undiscreet way of 'OMG thatzz racist!' but its how South Africa is, just because it is slightly different to our culture does not mean its the worst thing in the entire world!

Anyway back on topic... check out that lighting

RedDanDoc · 13 Jul 2011 at 18:19

Ejizz said:
No your talking about history and politics, I haven't read ANYTHING about the photography aspect of the wedding, so the thread needs to be moved, or we need to be on topic.

No I'm talking about themes and what are acceptable and what are possibly offensive.

I think its a worthy topic for discussion as I could in all innocence compose some photographs which could be deemed offensive to others and I wouldn't even be aware at the time.

This thread has given us these things to consider when thinking about themes etc. Seems that it has flown right over your head though.

Its not just about light and composition.

Just want to add that i was in the Holocaust exhibit at the Imperial War Museum the other day and was really torn about sneaking a few photos of the scale model of Auschwitz that they have there, its forbidden so i never but i wanted to just because its an impressive and powerfull piece but maybe it would have been deemed hurtful to others.

I could have photographed it in ignorance though, maybe this little anecdote dosent belong in this thread but it gave me food for thought.

An Exception · 13 Jul 2011 at 18:31

Rojin said:
No it's not, and no I don't have a problem with that statement either. It's just that, a statement of someone's personal experience.

No he was actually to suggesting a population peoples (or a high proportion) were racist after sampling 4 consecutive racists (in his opinion) in a row.

That's PREJUDICE, plain and simple, and doesn't make him any better than the people he is condemning...

"A prejudice is a prejudgment, an assumption made about someone or something before having adequate knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice

Having said that, I actually agree with you Rojin, it's just the rules of the world are now governed by a liberal pack of wolves that have no tolerance for truth or logic...