World of Warcraft = boaring :(

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:28

helin0x said:
I was looking at a 2008 graph, so I'll retract that, they still have about 7m subs ahead of their competitor -http://www.mmodata.net/

How do you define a successful mmo if not by % of users against total users?

That link is only comparing a few subscription based games, it does not include all of the FTP games and how much market share they own, which on a global scale completely decimates WoW.

Robbo said:
Blizzard know they have the best MMO and people will pay for it, they HAVE to pay for it or they can't play it. It's as simple as that.

I am also not arguing that WoW should be FTP. I am saying that there are much better 'Bang for Buck' alternatives in the FTP market, and that hardly any other MMO has been successful with a fee based model.

Wow has dominated the P2P niche, and there is no room in this market for other games to become as successful with the same fee based model.

helin0x · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:29

bhavv said:
That link is only comparing a few subscription based games, it does not include all of the FTP games and how much market share they own, which on a global scale completely decimates WoW.

Source!?

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:32

bhavv said:
I am also not arguing that WoW should be FTP. I am saying that there are much better 'Bang for Buck' alternatives in the FTP market.

Why accept an inferior product purely based on 'bang for buck' though. It's not like WoW is ridiculously expensive.

If the FTP games were as good as WoW you would have a point, but they aren't.

cosmos55 · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:35

I played obsessively for only a few months, It was fun to get to 60 as an undead shadow priest. I quit not long after because they were underpowered and i found it hard to group.
I spent most of the end game in the frost battleground thing which was really good until WOTLK came out and made the whole thing obsolete.

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:38

helin0x said:
Source!?

Maple Story has well over over 500,000 players, earned $500,000 revenue in 2008:

http://www.engagedigital.com/blog/2009/02/02/maple-story-nets-150500m-in-revenue-for-2008/

And in 2011 had a 59% revenue jump over 2010:

http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/05/maple-story-publisher-posts-59-revenue-jump/

That is only one of Asias FTP MMOs, there are PLENTY others that are all excluded from the charts and figures on your link.

Robbo said:
Why accept an inferior product purely based on 'bang for buck' though. It's not like WoW is ridiculously expensive.

If the FTP games were as good as WoW you would have a point, but they aren't.

Playing WoW for a few years would become ridiculously expensive, and I dont see how any of the FTP games I mentioned are inferior. Can you back that claim up and explain how WoW is such a better game than any of the ones I mentioned?

I played wow for 30 days, and from what I could tell it was the most inferior MMO I have ever played. Rubbish graphics, rubbish combat, rubbish PVP, and the PVE is simply a case of trying to get to max level as quickly as possible, which most players admit to not enjoying until they are playing the end game content.

Adsta · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:42

bhavv said:
I dont dislike WoW, I dislike fees. You seem to think that being unwilling to pay fees means I dislike the game.

There is not a single game out there that I would pay £110 per year just to play. Lotro cost me £75 for a lifetime sub, DDO cost me £80 to unlock all of the content, and I get to keep on playing them for life. The total cost I've spent in GW over 6 years exceeds £150. But all of that combined is still a lot less less than WoW would have cost me to play for 5 years. Plus after you've played WoW for 5+ years and decide you've had enough, you cant continue playing it casually without paying more fees like you can in any FTP game.

Ok so you dislike fees. WoW as you said cost £110 per year to play. But most new games will retail at what 30quid per game. So for the cost of 4 new games which MIGHT last you what 2-3 weeks max (with the exception of a few) you could get a whole years worth of gameplay.

I get into arguements like this with mates of mine at work. Who say I am stupid for paying each month for a game. Yet they will quite happily buy 1-2 console/PC games a month which costs more than my sub for WoW.

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:44

What if I cant play WoW for anymore than 2-3 weeks without getting bored? Which I couldnt otherwise I would have paid for it.

Guild Wars I've played for 6 years for around £150. DDO I've played for about 18 months for £80, and Lotro I only played for a few months for £75 because I found the combat too boring, but unlike WoW I can simply reinstall it and play it again if I want to without paying any more.

Also Morrowind kept me greatly entertained for over 3 years for £25, and Baldurs Gate 1 + 2 still keep me entertained today.

For Maple Story and Battleforge, I paid £30 into each one and played them for around 4-6 months. If I ever get back into them I can do so without paying anymore, and make a purchase if I decide to play for a while.

I greatly prefer this payment model over fees.

Adsta · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:46

Well as always with games thats your choice. This debate is never going to go anywhere because people enjoy different types of games.

Some people only play FPS games. Some RPG. Some sports games.... WoW is again another game which people will either like or dislike. But to you dislike it purely because it has fees attached to it is a pretty sorry reason imo. Its like saying I don't like X Y Z game because I don't like the front cover art...

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:47

bhavv said:
Playing WoW for a few years would become ridiculously expensive,

£500-600 over 5/6 years is ridiculously expensive?

bhavv said:
and I dont see how any of the FTP games I mentioned are inferior. Can you back that claim up and explain how WoW is such a better game than any of the ones I mentioned?

Well...

bhavv said:
I played wow for 30 days, and from what I could tell it was the most inferior MMO I have ever played. Rubbish graphics, rubbish combat, rubbish PVP, and the PVE is simply a case of trying to get to max level as quickly as possible, which most players admit to not enjoying until they are playing the end game content.

No. I'm not going to waste my time. Suffice to say I think you're very, very wrong.

helin0x · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:49

With regards to what you wrote earlier (I can get a couple of games for a few quid) But then you've spent money on them one over £150, you've been suckered into paying for them no differently than us playing wow its just a different business model. I know not the same as the £110/year you'd spend on wow, but we fully accept that price and we can choose not to pay for it for a month if we choose to.

Going back to your comment about music, you could download the music/dvd illegally, much as you can play wow on a private server for free: no mircopayments either. But you dont... why, because you support them. No other artist can create the same songs, if they could and they sold them for free then you wouldnt listen to the original. No one else can make wow (think runescape is pretty close mind

even the gui looks the same) and their subs clearly show this.

500k revenue for a year from 500k players is pretty poor. LoL has only 1m users is F2P and makes $50M a year and the company is valued at $250M after their first year of business.

2008 figures: Quote: - http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6185347/vivendi-reports-blizzards-first-billion-dollar-year

As a result, the revenues of WOW's developer and publisher, Blizzard Entertainment, shot up 58 percent to reach €814 million ($1.2 billion) -(at this time it had 10M subs)

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:50

Robbo said:
£500-600 over 5/6 years is ridiculously expensive?

For one game yes it is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.

helin0x said:
W But then you've spent money on them one over £150, you've been suckered into paying for them no differently than us playing wow its just a different business model.

£150 over six years for Guild wars Prophecies (£30), Factions CE (£40), Nightfal CE (40), EOTN (£20), plus a few optional micro transactions VS £600+ for 6 years of WoW = suckered in to paying the same? Care to explain how? I paid once, a much lower value for each game, and can play them forever.

You can get the entire GW collection for £20 now as well and get the same out of it without paying anymore. to me it was a game worth buying on launch and getting the CEs.

helin0x · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:52

Anyway its been fun will catch up again after lunch and I've possibly done some work

Adsta · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:53

Yet if you bought 1 new game a month at £30 (average RRP) for 5 years it would cost you £1800...

See I can do maths too

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:54

bhavv said:
For one game yes it is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.

I disagree

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:56

Adsta said:
Yet if you bought 1 new game a month at £30 (average RRP) for 5 years it would cost you £1800...

See I can do maths too

You'ld still have a lot more games than just having 1 instead. And once purchased they can be played forever.

Robbo said:
I disagree

No game is worth £600. If Blizzard charged that much for WoW on purchase instead without any more charges, then you wouldnt have bought it.

helin0x said:
500k revenue for a year from 500k players is pretty poor. LoL has only 1m users is F2P and makes $50M a year and the company is valued at $250M after their first year of business.

Its not poor if its enough money for them to maintain the game. The MAJORITY of players in Asian MMOs dont pay a single penny to play them, the ones that choose to pay for the micro transactions keep the game going for everyone else.

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 13:59

bhavv said:
No game is worth £600. If Blizzard charged that much for WoW on purchase instead without any more charges, then you wouldnt have bought it.

You know it isn't the same as when it was released, right? It's been properly developed and updated to keep people interested (which it has).

To be honest it seems pointless just trying to explain it to you. You're never going to understand how the world works.

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 14:01

WoW =/= how the world works. Its one game, and a ridiculously overpriced one at that.

You're never going to understand the reality that MMOs dont need to charge that much money to be successful. And successful =/= 'As much money as Blizzard make'.

Adsta · 15 Jul 2011 at 14:03

So you would end up with more games ? not every single one of those games you will have played completely through as some will be utter tosh but some will be really good.

But I really do not see the arguement here ? you would say you would rather spend £1800 for 5 years for a load of games that you will have to store, and might play once hate it and not play it again. Where I could pay £600 for 5 years and get a game which I throughly enjoy.

As already mentioned this debate is not going to go anywhere as you clearly dislike WoW and well thats going to be the end of the arguement from you. You dislike it we do. You cannot see the value for money because it is a game you dislike. I see it as value for money as it is a game I like.

Robbo · 15 Jul 2011 at 14:04

What Blizzard charge has no doubt helped the game remain as strong as it has for so long.

Other MMO's just collapse and then become tiny in comparison, yet you claim they are 'way better AND free'. Nonsense.

bhavv · 15 Jul 2011 at 14:05

Adsta said:
you would say you would rather spend £1800 for 5 years for a load of games that you will have to store, and might play once hate it and not play it again. Where I could pay £600 for 5 years and get a game which I throughly enjoy.

No I didnt say that I spend £1800 for 5 years worth of games.

Robbo said:
What Blizzard charge has no doubt helped the game remain as strong as it has for so long.

Other MMO's just collapse and then become tiny in comparison, yet you claim they are 'way better AND free'. Nonsense.

None of the MMO's I have named in this thread have collapsed or become tiny. What Blizzard charge isnt what has kept WoW strong, the number of subscribers has.

As soon as those subscribers move onto something else, WoW will share the same fate as any other P2P MMO.