Graduates - Accountancy

[Barks]

Did any of you manage to get on this career path with a 2:2?

I read Economics and ended up with a 2:2. It's the classic story of 59% however mine is under appeal as I had some traumatic personal circumstances which severely affected half of my exams. (I don't really feel happy about discussing this despite the anonymity of the Internet!)

What I find really disheartening: 'The tyranny of the 2:1'

Most of the top tier firms are not interested in you unless you have a 2:1. Now of course your degree discipline is irrelevant, as far as they're concerned, as is where you studied. I simply don't understand this, they want the best people who are most likely to pass the ACA (in my case) exams. I did a challenging academic degree and had to sit 12 exams - this year - yet I have friends applying who did degrees which involved a year of getting lashed, sitting about 3 open-book exams and designing posters. Apparently they're worth looking at but I'm not. They're also extremely naive as to the intensity of work required over the 3 years studying for the various accountancy qualifications.

I feel really disheartened and that my 2:2 is crap when in reality I still had to work incredibly hard for this and battle my way through 12 highly mathematical modules, half of them during traumatic family circumstances. I did well for myself.

As much as I would love to work at PwC or E&Y etc their refusal to even consider applicants with a 2:2 makes this very much impossible. I feel really dismayed, I spent months researching accountancy, I know exactly what I want to do and I'm really passionate about doing it. Then I see mates who are applying there - for the sake of it - with no intention of actually wanting a job.

My degree is actually under appeal and I've been told it's likely it may be upgraded to a 2:1 in light of newly provided medical evidence, but the outcome is months away and I want to start applying for jobs now.

I'd be really grateful to hear from anyone training in accountancy who received a 2:2 and their stories.

Many thanks, sorry for the rant and I hope I haven't caused any offence!

 

[Dunks]

Why don't you try and get put through your ACA from a firm without a hard 2.1 limit, do a few years with the firm then try and apply for PwC and E&Y as a professional rather than a graduate? Or do they still require a 2.1 minimum?

 

[Vonhelmet]

Why don't you try and get put through your ACA from a firm without a hard 2.1 limit, do a few years with the firm then try and apply for PwC and E&Y as a professional rather than a graduate? Or do they still require a 2.1 minimum?

If you've got the relevant professional qualification they usually don't care - it's an "experienced hire" rather than a "graduate hire".

An alternative is to apply for the non-graduate program, if they have one - I know PwC do in some streams. You'll get paid less and it might take a bit longer to qualify, but it's something at least.

 

[Kappa]

got to EY after a few years experience and CIMA in industry. I got a 2:2 too

edit - what I'm saying is have a crack at finance in industry, sometimes more flexible on requirements and will still teach you accountancy.

 

[Nikias]

I can understand why firms do it - they need an easy, objective way to automatically cut down the hordes of applicants with a computer rather than a human sift. A 2:2 means you did worse than 70% or so of your peers, so you can understand why they do it, even if it seems unfair in your case. If it makes you feel better, the people with 60.2% in Dog Fighting and X-Factor Studies from Bogroll Polyversity will be swiftly culled as soon as the first human sees their apps though...

Best thing to do is ring up the HR bods at the places you are applying, explain you have mitigating circumstances and ask if they would still be interested in your application. Some will say yes, let you give them your name and get past the auto filter. The other thing to do is to make sure you have a USP on your app. You'd need it even if you had a First in these troubled times and it needs to be that much more compelling as, mitigating circumstances or not, they would be taking a risk with you.

Finally, unless you have an amazing app otherwise, you might want to lower your sights from the London offices of the Big Four et al. Smaller practices generally have less competition and are more interested in how you fit into the office and so on. They will be much more understanding of a 2:2, whereas a big London firm probably has five hundred apps the same as yours, but without the 2:2 risk. You can always move in a few years when things pick up if you prove yourself.

 

[weringo]

Unfortunately those who work in HR don't like to work themselves too hard so they come up with arbitrary ways of autofiltering out canditates to save themselves time.

I got a first in accounting & finance but because I didn't get 300 UCAS points apparently I'm not worth looking at in comparison to someone who got BBB at A-level in critical thinking, media studies and photography and then went on to get a 2.1 in psychology. According to the big 4, the candidate with the 300 UCAS points and a 2.1 is more likely to pass the ACA exams

Fortunately there are loads of small accounting firms who will take the time to look at each application so you can go down that route, you can always work in industry studying ACCA/CIMA and get paid more at the same time as well.

 

[Nazca]

I'm still looking at getting an ACA training vacancy. I got a 2.1 in comp sci in university last year, and 280 UCAS points (which as above means that the Big 4 will reject my app). Right now, I'm in the middle of a summer work experience placement at a chartered accountancy firm. Learning loads, and loving it.

At the same time I'm also studying the CFAB, which are the same 6 knowledge modules that ACA students study. I've got a couple of interviews coming up with small/medium sized firms.

OP, do you have any relevant experience?

 

[Barks]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm amazed UCAS points are still relevant. Are you honestly saying PwC would reject an applicant with, say, a First Class hons in Maths but only BBB at A Level? That's absolutely ludicrous.

I have considered CIMA and it looks really interesting but the advantage of ACA is that it keeps more doors open and you can still move into industry if you wish. It's certainly something I haven't ruled out yet. I worked in industry last summer and funnily enough the three lads who looked after me did CIMA, ACA and ACCA so I was able to extract plenty of information about what life is really like studying each of them.

Nikias, thanks for the advice. I'm not aiming for the London offices. You speak of USP but at the end of the day I'm applying for a graduate job scheme not The Apprentice
On a serious note, apart from relevant experience and the usual sporting extra curricular activities I guess I could mention the fact I've designed (and maintain) websites for a few clients. If I was some entrepreneurial genius then I certainly wouldn't be wanting to slave away for 3 years doing an accountancy qualification!

 

[Nitefly]

I'm amazed UCAS points are still relevant. Are you honestly saying PwC would reject an applicant with, say, a First Class hons in Maths but only BBB at A Level? That's absolutely ludicrous.

Law firms do this too - it's ridiculous. I know individuals that can't apply to places with their Redbrick 1st class degrees because they didn't get three As at A-levels, how silly is that?

 

[weringo]

I have considered CIMA and it looks really interesting but the advantage of ACA is that it keeps more doors open and you can still move into industry if you wish. It's certainly something I haven't ruled out yet. I worked in industry last summer and funnily enough the three lads who looked after me did CIMA, ACA and ACCA so I was able to extract plenty of information about what life is really like studying each of them.

The ICAEW recognise ACCA/CIMA and make it pretty easy to convert to ACA should you wish, so you can qualify through any of the professional bodies and it doesn't really close any doors.

Info here http://www.icaew.com/en/join-us/members-of-other-bodies/pathways-to-membership

 

[Barks]

Law firms do this too - it's ridiculous. I know individuals that can't apply to places with their Redbrick 1st class degrees because they didn't get three As at A-levels, how silly is that?

As far as I'm concerned if they're going to play that game then it's their loss.

People grow up. I didn't care less about about exams when I was younger, the only reason I still got 340 UCAS points was because of outstanding teaching.

I guess once you're on the ladder your degree and education becomes completely irrelevant a few years down the line anyway.

 

[Nikias]

Law firms do this too - it's ridiculous. I know individuals that can't apply to places with their Redbrick 1st class degrees because they didn't get three As at A-levels, how silly is that?

Heh, I was in that situation. Got a First and came top of the class at my Russell Group university, but had ABB at A-Level from my crappy comprehensive so most of the Yank shops weren't interested, even after I phoned them up (although a few were more reasonable). Found a TC at a good UK City law firm in the end though so all's well that ends well.

Mind you, if the average HR goon lost a single IQ point she would have to photosynthesise and be grown in a pot. So these problems are not all that surprising actually.

 

[Nitefly]

Heh, I was in that situation. Got a First and came top of the class at my Russell Group university, but had ABB at A-Level from my crappy comprehensive so most of the Yank shops weren't interested, even after I phoned them up (although a few were more reasonable). Found a TC at a good UK City law firm in the end though so all's well that ends well.

Mind you, if the average HR goon lost a single IQ point she would have to photosynthesise and be grown in a pot. So these problems are not all that surprising actually.

Glad it turned out ok for you

 

[Sukh]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm amazed UCAS points are still relevant. Are you honestly saying PwC would reject an applicant with, say, a First Class hons in Maths but only BBB at A Level? That's absolutely ludicrous.

I have heard that the correlation between A-levels and success at ACA/CA is greater than a persons degree classification.

edited to add: I think PwC have a second stream in Birmingham where you can apply if you have a 2:2.

 

[Kemik]

Unfortunately this is the world of the Big Four, and probably the two or three below it. Their reasoning is "we get 18,000 applicants for 900 places. Why should we listen to why your 2.2 is better than an Art degree's 2.1? We can just weld an axe over that 18,000 and ensure we get who we want. We don't mind if that cuts out a few good ones".

The ACA exams aren't University level. Think whatever you done at Uni times a minimum of 2 in half the amount of time. They believe the requirement of a 2.1 ensures they get people that can pass it. If you are border line, do they really want you? (I say that with the nicest of respects, I got 61% so I'm not exactly shining 2.1). You'll find people in the same situation with low A level results. I wouldn't have got in if I had taken a year out and then applied.

Your best bet is to either train yourself via ACCA or look at other graduate programs. Unfortunately you'll hit the same wall with most FTSE 100 companies though.

Good luck!

 

[Barks]

Unfortunately this is the world of the Big Four, and probably the two or three below it. Their reasoning is "we get 18,000 applicants for 900 places. Why should we listen to why your 2.2 is better than an Art degree's 2.1? We can just weld an axe over that 18,000 and ensure we get who we want. We don't mind if that cuts out a few good ones".

The ACA exams aren't University level. Think whatever you done at Uni times a minimum of 2 in half the amount of time. They believe the requirement of a 2.1 ensures they get people that can pass it. If you are border line, do they really want you? (I say that with the nicest of respects, I got 61% so I'm not exactly shining 2.1). You'll find people in the same situation with low A level results. I wouldn't have got in if I had taken a year out and then applied.

Your best bet is to either train yourself via ACCA or look at other graduate programs. Unfortunately you'll hit the same wall with most FTSE 100 companies though.

Good luck!

Thanks mate.

I'm fully aware that it's a hell of a lot of work hence why I said some of my mates are naive about what they're signing up for!

In a way I can understand why there may be a stronger correlation between ACA pass rates and good A Level results. The fact is you can still pick up a 2:1 in many degrees by leaving it to the last minute. This isn't the case with decent A level subjects, thinking Maths, Physics for example.

 

[semi-pro waster]

The ICAEW recognise ACCA/CIMA and make it pretty easy to convert to ACA should you wish, so you can qualify through any of the professional bodies and it doesn't really close any doors.

Info here http://www.icaew.com/en/join-us/members-of-other-bodies/pathways-to-membership

Cheers for that link, that's interesting as I'd heard the ICAEW did that but the person telling me assured me it was only something that applied to CIPFA. It's a long way off for me at the moment but interesting all the same.

Mind you, if the average HR goon lost a single IQ point she would have to photosynthesise and be grown in a pot. So these problems are not all that surprising actually.

Haha, that's a good way of describing the issue. I'm strangely pleased that it's a problem that exists all over, HR seem too often to cause more problems than they solve and what's worse is they often appear to forget what they've done before in similar situations.

scott212: there's at least one person on the training scheme I'm on that has a 2:2 and there may be more. This is however in the civil service so I don't know whether that appeals or even if there is going to be much further recruitment of accountancy trainees - maybe worth looking into though. The website is here if you want to take a look.

 

[Dark Sun]

Unfortunately those who work in HR don't like to work themselves too hard so they come up with arbitrary ways of autofiltering out canditates to save themselves time.

I got a first in accounting & finance but because I didn't get 300 UCAS points apparently I'm not worth looking at in comparison to someone who got BBB at A-level in critical thinking, media studies and photography and then went on to get a 2.1 in psychology. According to the big 4, the candidate with the 300 UCAS points and a 2.1 is more likely to pass the ACA exams

Fortunately there are loads of small accounting firms who will take the time to look at each application so you can go down that route, you can always work in industry studying ACCA/CIMA and get paid more at the same time as well.

Law firms do this too - it's ridiculous. I know individuals that can't apply to places with their Redbrick 1st class degrees because they didn't get three As at A-levels, how silly is that?

These comments are bang on. I'm the same and with a master's degree where I got a distinction. Yet, I got rejected because of UCAS points from exams I did seven years ago. In my experience HR people are generally morons and I got my current job by contacting the manager of the department direct.

 

[Sukh]

These comments are bang on. I'm the same and with a master's degree where I got a distinction. Yet, I got rejected because of UCAS points from exams I did seven years ago. In my experience HR people are generally morons and I got my current job by contacting the manager of the department direct.

Where did you get the job, in a big 4 firm?

 

[dilated]

If you have made a decision to dedicate some of your best years to the academic system and you are then surprised that blue chip companies take into account your academic record then I would suggest that you are either not ready and/or not up to joining that world and should quickly realign your horizons.